StillBirths/ Miscarriages - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Baby Morgan. stillbirth in Oklahoma in 1933

LOVESeGENEe — 2019-12-25 00:37:43Z

So glad to have helped! :)

Re: Baby Morgan. stillbirth in Oklahoma in 1933

kimdewald — 2019-12-23 19:29:41Z

Thank you !!! we have been searching for this little one for over 30 years

kim

Re: Baby Morgan. stillbirth in Oklahoma in 1933

LOVESeGENEe — 2019-12-23 13:25:04Z

James Kenneth Morgan, who died Sept. 4, 1933, IS the right child. You can see his original death record here:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C34D-W3DQ-L...

He is buried in Davidson Cemetery.

Re: Baby Morgan. stillbirth in Oklahoma in 1933

kimdewald — 2019-12-23 07:00:51Z

I forgot to ask but where did you locate this information?
thanks
kim

Re: Baby Morgan. stillbirth in Oklahoma in 1933

kimdewald — 2019-12-21 00:47:27Z

thank you...am still searching. I have the name as James Kenneth MORGAN so the one listing of 1933 might be him

kim

Re: Baby Morgan. stillbirth in Oklahoma in 1933

Mar-Kea — 2019-12-20 03:16:28Z

Not sure if you still check for reply's, but there was a James K Morgan who did in Tillman Co. Ok on Sept 4, 1933. I do not know if this was an infant or adult.

James E Morgan Died in Tillman Co. Ok. on Feb 6 1936. Again, not sure if adult or child.

Re: stillborns/miscarriages in family tree info

msbeta898 — 2019-11-02 12:08:08Z

I add them, especially if there is a grave marker for them or if they are listed in a family biography or family bible.

Re: twins stillborn

deeflint01 — 2019-02-05 11:33:10Z

Try the various newspaper sites and see if you can find an article about it. Births and deaths were often listed in the newspapers.

Re: twins stillborn

barbdale_1 — 2019-02-05 03:16:33Z

Were your brother and sister living with their Mom at the time of the twins birth? What do they have to say about it?

twins stillborn

PETERMARSHALL123 — 2019-02-03 15:58:26Z

I have discovered after my mothers death that she had twins in 1972 apparently died and my family knew about them . there was a photo at one time. I have a sister and brother still living born in 1961 and 1962. but the twins were given the same names as the living ones. I have found birth certs for both twins but no death certs. is there any way of finding out if they lived or died. my mother was very secretive and iv already found a sister that was adopted at birth.

Re: Gay Couples with Children

LOVESeGENEe — 2018-12-28 23:29:39Z

In the child's profile, chose Edit, Edit Relationships, Add Alternate Father.

You can choose Adopted, Step, Guardian, Private, etc. etc.

Re: Stillborns

deeflint01 — 2018-09-01 20:44:25Z

Try looking for a certificate of fetal death, which is different record than a death certificate.

Gay Couples with Children

Leza_H_Wallace — 2018-09-01 20:17:00Z

I cannot find a relationship value to indicate the relationship between a gay parent and the non-biological parent. Is there a way to do this? How do other people handle it in their trees?

Stillborns

Leza_H_Wallace — 2018-09-01 20:13:05Z

Does anyone find it troubling that no death certificate is issued for a stillborn baby? My granddaughter has no government record that she ever existed. She was full-term and a real person. I find it an insult and it contributes to my grief. Of course she is in the Family Bible.

Secondly, there does not appear to be a way to designate a child as stillborn. Should there be a way to do this because I am very definitely including her in my family tree.

Re: Bowen Stillborns/ Misscarages

diskoverit — 2018-08-16 23:31:58Z

In the U.S. many births were not documented if the child was born at home, or somewhere other than a hospital, especially if the birth Mother lived in a rural area. Even if the child was born at a doctors office, it may not have been recorded until many years later when the child is grown and would need a record of birth. These are called "delayed births" and generally a family member, neighbor, or anyone who was at the birth or who had knowledge of the birth would be the informant on the certificate.

As for miscarriages, if the miscarriage occurred early in the pregnancy, most likely there would not be a record. If the miscarriage occurred later in the pregnancy where the child may have survived, it would be a stillbirth, There might be a birth and death record, but it would depend on the time period.

Re: Census births

diskoverit — 2018-08-16 23:31:58Z

Yes, the 1910 census did list the number of children born, and the actual number of children still living at the time of this census.

Re: still born in the 1930's & '20's; would there be a burial?

lydiababy7 — 2017-05-16 08:42:12Z

I actually have aunt & uncles buried in communial graves in doncaster & wakefield. Not sure which cemetaries as no record of buriel was entered. It took me years to find my grandad as hes buried in a communial grave along with 3 other ex soldiers. I would highly recommend trying portsmouth as they hold all stillbirth records.

Re: still born in the 1930's & '20's; would there be a burial?

sandrawortham72 — 2017-05-13 16:37:24Z

Thank you for your help. All input is appreciated!

Re: Stillborn in 1930's where mother died in childbirth

bari_burke — 2015-09-17 01:31:45Z

What country and locale are you talking about? It makes a difference. First, phone the cemetery and ask for an interment list that will provide you with names 7 death dates of those interred together.
Next, search a death index for the locale for the exact date and surname. Some stillborn babies were full terms births, thus they would have been named, and a funeral may have occurred.

Re: still born in the 1930's & '20's; would there be a burial?

sandrawortham72 — 2015-02-25 22:36:52Z

thank you for your help

Re: still born in the 1930's & '20's; would there be a burial?

sandrawortham72 — 2017-05-13 16:36:02Z

Thank you for your reply. I had never heard of this belief; interesting!

Re: Stillborn Twin?

suzanne2812 — 2015-02-25 19:10:26Z

Hi. If she was stillborn & didn't draw a breath, then there should have been a stillbirth certificate. This is unlike any other. They are not listed online & only a parent or sibling (if they have the parent's death certificate) can order one. It's all very delicate. If however, the baby breathed even once a birth & a death certificate will be available. Obtaining certificate for an historic stillbirth entry

Due to the sensitive nature of stillbirth registrations, the procedure for ordering a copy of a stillbirth entry differs from other types of certificates. Apart from very recent events, the General Register Office holds records of all stillbirths registered in England and Wales since 1 July 1927. Certified copies of these records can only be obtained with the registrar general's consent.

The following conditions apply:

A certificate will only be issued to the mother or father of a stillborn child;
Siblings may apply if their parents are no longer alive. Details of their parents dates of death should be sent with the application; Regards Suzanne x

Re: stillborns/miscarriages in family tree info

graphixkat — 2016-10-20 17:36:37Z

I put everyone in my tree. They were still a cousin, an aunt or uncle. I believe everybody deserves to be remembered. Even a miscarriage with unknown sex can be added as unknown. In that case I call them Baby with surname.

Baby Morgan. stillbirth in Oklahoma in 1933

kimdewald — 2015-03-19 23:21:17Z

Searching for my mom who is seeking information in locating her half brother. My grandma was briefly m in May 1933...her name was Bertha Renfroe his was James Otis Morgan...a short time later a boy, delivered a home and stillborn arrived. There marriage was either annulled or divorce happened. He went his way and did she. It would be 15 years later that the birth/death was revealed to my mom. Every 6 mths my grandma would visit a grave in Davidson, Tillman, Oklahoma. We are trying to locate any info on this. The grave has not been found, but we are assuming he might have been buried with someone else..we have not been able to locate a birth or death record of the event. She did have the boy at home and a dr. was present. So some records should be around...right
thanks for any advice and direction on locating him
kim

stillborns/miscarriages in family tree info

brevak2016 — 2016-08-30 18:16:42Z

Just curious if and how many people include stillborn babies and miscarriages in their genealogy trees. Seems important to add them as they were ancestors, but then again......can anyone share their thoughts on this? Thanks Barb

STILL BIRTHS

sallycooper6 — 2016-06-25 14:34:42Z

Hi
Was, and is it common for Still Born babies to be buried without a name

THANKS FOR ANY HELP

Re: Stillborn sister

carolnotjoyce — 2015-10-28 14:12:19Z

Hello Lynn,
My story is very similar to yours. I had a stillborn sister born between me and my brother. There are 8 years between us so that was quite a gap to cover. My father told me about the birth but no details. My mother told me a little bit about immediately after the birth, but no details of date or what she was going to be called and I didn`t like to press her .
I finally got in touch with GRO after my mother died a few years ago but they had no records of my sister. All I can suggest is if you have older family, ask them. Unfortunately, as far as I know I am the oldest in our family now, so the last piece in my family jigsaw will be forever missing.
Best of luck with your search,
Carol

Re: STILL BIRTHS

deeflint01 — 2016-06-26 17:34:56Z

Well I've seen a lot of gravestones that say Infant Daughter or Infant Son. So I would say it is not uncommon.

Re: Virginia Stillbirth

deeflint01 — 2016-08-14 16:00:55Z

Some states don't call them stillbirths. Iowa issues certificates of fetal death.

Re: stillborns/miscarriages in family tree info

deeflint01 — 2016-08-31 20:19:55Z

Whether or not to add them is a personal decision. I've seen many stillborns added but no miscarriages added. However neither can be an ancestor as they had no children. They would be collateral relatives.

Re: still born in the 1930's & '20's; would there be a burial?

deeflint01 — 2017-05-09 18:28:14Z

Some states (Iowa is one of them) issue a certificate of fetal death for a stillborn. The rules for obtaining records do vary from state to state so you may or may not have to be a blood relative or it may depend on how long ago it was. In some states, old records are open to anyone.

Re: Baby Morgan. stillbirth in Oklahoma in 1933

deeflint01 — 2015-09-09 20:31:21Z

Most vital records have to be ordered from the government entity that holds them. Very few of them are online due to various state privacy laws.

Re: Stillborn in 1930's where mother died in childbirth

deeflint01 — 2015-09-09 20:23:43Z

British office for vital records.

Re: Parents re-use child's names?

Mary_b73 — 2017-03-11 23:12:40Z

Yes, apparently it was the custom . I have several incidences in my family.
Mary.

Re: still born in the 1930's & '20's; would there be a burial?

lydiababy7 — 2017-05-09 14:01:33Z

I spent years hunting for 7 children my grandmother had in the 20's, 30's & 40's. Out of 11 children, 4 survived to adulthood, 4 had death certificates as they were breathing @ birth & the remaining 3 girls were born but disappeared. Yeats of phoning round & digging took me to the archives in portsmouth where i was informed that the midwife gave a certificate of stillbirth as a death certificate along with a birth certificate. I couldnt find my great aunts, so more digging & contacting wakefield coyncil & getting the guy who caretakes the cemetaries & he found whete my granfad was burried, the girls more than likely went into a mass grave which, for me, having 7 of my own was absolutely heartbreaking. I do know that if the parents were financially affluent, then a recently deceased womans family would be approached & asked if the infant could be laid to rest with her. the belief bieng the infant would have a mother figure to look after it.

Re: Stillborn in 1930's where mother died in childbirth

ChristineBoyle522 — 2015-09-08 23:30:37Z

I'm drawing a blank. What is GRO?

Re: Stillborn in 1930's where mother died in childbirth

ChristineBoyle522 — 2015-09-10 02:07:03Z

Thank you deeflint01. My only suggestion for the OP would be to try to obtain a copy of the death certificate(s) and to look for cemetery records and an obituary. But I'm not at all familiar with British records.

Virginia Stillbirth

chantillynative46 — 2016-08-12 17:02:20Z

I contacted vital records in Virginia and they said they didn't issue any paperwork for a stillbirth in Virginia. This wasn't that long ago in the grand scheme. 1972. Does anyone know how I could find information on a stillbirth of conjoined twins in Alexandria? Slim chance it was DC. The bodies were donated to science, per family lore. I don't have much more information than that and both parents are still living although they refuse to discuss it.

Re: Virginia Stillbirth

chantillynative46 — 2016-08-15 01:37:17Z

I will check with Vital records to see what they say. Thank you.

Stillborn in 1930's where mother died in childbirth

gmichaelb56 — 2015-09-04 14:11:07Z

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and I'm trying to trace my mother in law's family tree.

Her aunt died in child birth in 1939. We have recently found the grave where she is buried with the child but it is not marked. The family split around the same time and there is no-one to ask any details of.

We have the date of death but the GRO criteria for releasing details of stillborn deaths won't allow them to pass the information to us. (I'm presuming this is classed as a stillborn).

I would be extremely grateful for any advice on where to turn next (if there is anywhere!). We would dearly love to be able to place a a marker on the grave for the lady and her baby.

Thanks very much.

Re: Placeholder Photos for Deceased Infant Boy or Girl

abbiemcd1492 — 2015-07-26 19:42:41Z

Thank you so much for this. I hated leaving someone who was still birth or died young without a picture

Re: Parents re-use child's names?

abbiemcd1492 — 2015-07-26 19:39:33Z

In my studies of family history and history in general I've found this quite common, especially in larger families. One famous example would be Henry VIII and his first wife Catherine of Aragon had three sons who died young, all called Henry.

Finding an uncle.

abbiemcd1492 — 2015-07-26 17:02:38Z

In 1961 my nan gave birth to her first child who was sadly still born who was named Michael. Unfortunately everyone who was alive during Michael's birth has passed away except for my nan who is in the late stages of dementia and I don't want to make her upset by bringing up the death of her son.

I know a few things about Michael.
- the family where living in the centre of Liverpool, England at the time
- the last name was Watson and my nans maiden was Fitzpatrick
- he was born in 1961 probably around October and November
- he was born in a maternity home as they new he was already dead before he was born

If anyone could let me know where I may be able to find out where this little boy was born and get some certificate for him to remember him by would be great. It would also be of comfort to my mother and her siblings.

Many thanks :)

Re: Stillborn sister

lynn_shanahan — 2015-09-20 12:46:38Z

Hi,

Thank you for the link and the subsequent information. I had to put my research on hold earlier this year but have picked up the thread again and will contact the GRO to see if they can confirm the information I have.

Infant Death and Stillbirth to same mother

astepinthepast — 2015-09-17 21:36:12Z

Hi All

I have finally found what I believe to be the death cert of my great aunt who died shortly after birth - I have been told all along that she died around 2-3 yrs in the 1930's in London in the UK.

What I need to know as its not arrived yet - is what details will it show? Will it show if she had a burial, cause of death, parents etc?

Also, my g-nan lost her first child either during birth or pregnancy - apparently another girl - but I have no name to go by although I know the hospital in which she may possibly have been born. Are there any hospital records that I can find on line which record stillbirths?

Sadly my g-nan and her youngest daughter - my nan - are both dead. Whats even sadder is that my nan died before my g-nan meaning that my g-nan lost all three children before it was her time to go. Having lost my son in 2009 - he was under 24 weeks so we never recieved a death cert - this is a search close to my heart and I so want to know their story so I can keep their memory alive.

Thanks

Re: Stillborn in 1930's where mother died in childbirth

infosending1 — 2015-09-17 13:29:11Z

Only the birth parents, or if the birth parents are deceased, the siblings of the child, can apply for a copy of the birth record of a stillborn child, who was born in England or Wales.

Which in the case of a stillbirth which occurred 76 years ago, and in which the parents are now deceased, is a pretty silly and seemingly pointless rule.

I know the particular laws which apply to the registration of stillbirths both then and now, but I haven't read through those in detail, but I suspect that the restrictions may be a GRO policy rather than a provision of those laws.

If it is a legal provision of those laws, then those laws seem to need to be amended to include provision to limit the secrecy period in older cases in which the parents and siblings are now deceased or to include a provision to extend the access to the birth records to other relatives when the parents and siblings are deceased.

If it is a GRO policy, I'm wondering what would happen, if a relative made a freedom of information act request to the GRO, had it refused, and then appealed the refusal to the Information Commissioner.
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-freedom-of-inf...

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-freedom-of-inf...

Re: Stillborn sister

infosending1 — 2015-09-17 13:04:16Z

If you're still looking for this, the message thread on this link should tell you what you need to know about obtaining the records of a British stillbirth.
http://boards.ancestry.com/topics.stillmis/16/mb.ashx

Re: Finding an uncle.

infosending1 — 2015-09-17 12:22:56Z

At that time, in order to be classed as a stillbirth, the pregnancy would have to have lasted for at least 28 weeks, in 1992 that was changed to 24 weeks.

Registration for live births in England will be listed in the births registration indexes and those are now publicly available online for birth registrations which were made up to the end of 2006.

Registrations for stillbirths weren't and aren't made in those birth registration indexes.

Registrations for stillbirths are made in the stillbirths register which is administered by the UK GRO...and not by the local registration authorities in the place of birth.

The UK General Register Office for England and Wales
https://www.gov.uk/general-register-office

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/contact_us.as...

The information in the stillbirth register is confidential.

A copy of the birth certificate for a birth which is recorded in the stillbirth register will only be issued under certain conditions and to certain people.

It has to be applied for from the GRO.

Before a certificate from the stillbirth register can be issued the Registrar General for England and Wales has to give prior permission.

Since August 2015 that has been this person.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mark-thomson-appointed-ne...

Certificates can only be applied for by...

The birth mother or birth father of the child.

The siblings of the child, if both parents are now deceased and the siblings can produce proof of their deaths.

However, in your case, if your mother has a legal power of attorney in respect of your grandmother, then perhaps they might accept that as being sufficient to enable her to apply for a copy of the certificate.
http://www3.rbwm.gov.uk/info/200575/stillbirth_registration/...

Before a deceased person can be buried or cremated, the death has to be registered, which obviously doesn't apply in this case, but once the registration has been made, the registration authorities will issue documentation to the undertaker, which permits the undertaker to make the funeral arrangements.

However, as far as I know, if the registration authorities do keep copies of such documents, there isn't any means of applying to see them.

There were three main women's and maternity hospitals in the central Liverpool area at that time, and records for those do exist, and they are accessible, and they contain patient admission records and even patient notes.

If any of the family has the authority to be granted access to your grandmother's current medical records, if her records go back that far they may list her admission to a medical facility at that time.

What was the name of the street where your grandmother was living at the time. ?

Were there any family graves. ? If there were, then perhaps the child might have been interred there.

Re: Stillborn in 1930's where mother died in childbirth

infosending1 — 2015-09-17 10:33:30Z

Have you asked the cemetery administration what documentation you would require in order for the cemetery administration to grant you permission to have a grave marker installed. ?

In regard to her aunts death certificate, if you know her name and date and place of death, which you seem to, you can certainly get her death certificate, either from the UK General Register Office for England and Wales, or from the local registration authorities in the area in which she died.

Re: Stillborn sister

infosending1 — 2015-10-28 19:32:24Z

carolnotjoyce Stillbirth is a term which has a specific legal meaning, which in Britain is that the child was not born alive, however briefly, at the time of it's birth, and at that time period, that the pregnancy had lasted for at least 28 weeks by the time of the birth.

If your sister's birth circumstances met those criteria, then it would have been a legal requirement that her birth would have had to be registered in the stillbirths register.

However, when ordinary people speak about something they don't usually use words and phrases with regard to their specific and precise legal meaning, and I can imagine that many lay people would use the term stillbirth to refer to a child who was born alive but who only lived very briefly.

If that had happened in the case of your sister, then her birth might perhaps have been a live birth, and if it was then her birth would have been registered as a live birth, and even if she was unnamed in regard to her forename, her forename, in the birth registration index ledger, would be listed as female, her surname would have been listed as her father's surname, and your mother's maiden surname would also be listed in the birth registration index record.

If her birth was registered as a live birth, then she would of course, also have a death registration.

When the GRO official failed to find a birth record in the stillbirths register, did they then double check that the birth hadn't been registered as a live birth, or did they just assume that your information was wrong, and not check any further, who knows, but perhaps you might know. ?

If her birth wasn't registered in the stillbirths or the live births registers, then the only other possibility would seem to be that the pregnancy didn't last for 28 weeks.

Presumably no mention of any funeral arrangements was made.

If your late mum's medical records go back that far, and if you were permitted to access them, the the birth would probably be mentioned in them.