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Entering sources in FTM 2011

Entering sources in FTM 2011

Posted: 1368473458000
Classification: Census
I am finally trying to clean up my source citations, and despite searches on these fora, and looking through the 850-plus pages of Evidence Explained, I still have a very basic question: how to complete the source fields in FTM2011. That is, there are three fields:
"Source Title"
"Citation Detail" and
"Citation Text"

How much detail should be used for the Source Title, and what then goes in the remaining two. To use an example I found on-line (Not my own family):

STACEY, Samuel
Household of Samuel H. Stacey.
1901 Canada Census, Province of Ontario;
District of Muskoka Parry Sound, District No. 91;
Township of Armour, Sub District No. A;
Division 1, Page 7, House 66, Family 66, Lines 1-6;
National Archives of Canada, Microfilm T-06482;
Schedule No. 1, Population.
Note: Sam’s household includes his wife Fanny S.,
his sons Isaac G., James F., William G., and
daughter Fanny S.

Is there any consensus on how the census should be cited?


Re: Entering sources in FTM 2011

Posted: 1368475766000
Classification: Query
There is a thread here
that you may find helpful.

Re: Entering sources in FTM 2011

Posted: 1368490579000
Classification: Query
Thank you. Actually, that helps to answer the further question which I did not yet ask - why cite FamilySearch or Ancestry when they are actually pointing to national archives. Varying opinions, but yes, I found that very helpful. However, I also still have the outstanding question of how to enter citations in FTM 2011.

Thanks and Cheers,

Re: Entering sources in FTM 2011

Posted: 1368495531000
Classification: Query
I suggest that you read "Evidences, Sources and Citations for the Family Historian" by Elizabeth Shown Mills.

She appear to be the guru in this matter and FTM (along with Legacy Family Tree), use her templates and methods in their software.

The book gives all the ins and outs of the topic.

ESM has also written "Evidence Explained" but I don't suggest that you buy this.

There is a list of FTM's source templates on the GUM downloads page

John D

Re: Entering sources in FTM 2011

Posted: 1368495861000
Classification: Query
John seems to have overlooked the OP's mention of having already gone through "Evidence Explained."

Re: Entering sources in FTM 2011

Posted: 1368498185000
Classification: Query
Oh dear, oh dear,

Clearly I have

I am racked with remorse

John D

Re: Entering sources in FTM 2011

Posted: 1368502161000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1368502394000
I like EE from an academic standpoint, but I do have a problem with the exact thing you are questioning.

Source title can have various data points depending on the object being sourced. For published works it would be the actual title, for example the book or article title. For unpublished works it gets a little hairy!! For sources that involve a "happening" like an interview or letter I would have date, from person, to person, "interview, Jan 3, 1975 of John Doe" for a census I would have something like "1910 US Census, location..." The hairy part come in asking yourself when to stop with the "location...". I like to keep my source records generic so I stop with the state level and report the remaining detail in the field I.e the citation-detail.

The citation-text is for storing the actual text that you are citing. This is mostly for information that comes out of a book but could be used in other things as well. Remember the source-citation is for keeping citation specific data not for data about the source.

Re: Entering sources in FTM 2011

Posted: 1368529129000
Classification: Query
Perhaps others are giving me too much credit for knowing what I am doing :-) My basic question was perhaps too basic (certainly too basic for EE). The part of your response:

...for a census I would have something like "1910 US Census, location..." The hairy part come in asking yourself when to stop with the "location...". I like to keep my source records generic so I stop with the state level and report the remaining detail in the field I.e the citation-detail...

responds to that question. My Source Titles (also listed under the FTM2011 "Source Groups" tab) are perhaps too generic (e.g. "1881 Census of Canada"), so I will have a bit of work to do if I split them out in greater detail.

Thanks very much for the suggestions, all.

Use of Citation Detail Box

Posted: 1368540516000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1368555298000
I don't see anything too "generic" about the "1881 Census of Canada". Further details about where the specific record within that source can be entered in the Citation detail box.

The citation can be divided into two parts:

1) Where can the info be found?
2) Transcriptions (or summary) of info within the source.


Question one is answered in the Source Information and also in the Citation detail. For example, the Source info can have the name of a book, author, publiciation data, repository, etc. Whereas the Citation detail can have the location within that source, ie page number of a book, or the state, county, township or city, page number of a page in a census.

Question two - how much of info from the source should be in the citation versus in the actual details of a person - is a bit more of a judgment call. How are you going to present this data? In a web tree, or a published book, ie in an genealogy (register) report? If a printed report, FTM has the additional drawback of putting info from the source in the citation (the citation detail box) because, if chosen to be printed, it will be in the middle of possibly hundreds of pages of endless endnotes that will be difficult for the typical reader to refer to.

Or, do you simply want more info "on top" where you can see it in FTM, without referring to citation details, which are "buried" one level down from the Person Tab. Maybe you want that info visible at a glance as you are moving from person to person.

For example, you referred to a summary of a census, which I don't have in front of me for exact details. I use a rather standard format which is "10 yrs old with parents" or "54 yr old, wf Mariah-52, ch Frank-14, James-12, Matilda-10, carpenter, RE=$5,000. I now enter these items in the Description Field of the Residence Fact I am using for the census. I put a summary of pre-1850 census data counts in the Fact NOte for that Residence Fact. Many years ago, I put that info in the citation details box of the citation. Then, I saw where I was constantly referring to it later as I reviewed people and needed it visible "at a glance" as navigated through Person Tabs. Also, although I don't print many genealogy register reports on paper anymore, having that info buried hundreds of pages away in endless endnotes was a real problem for me.

Now I rarely use the citation detail box at all. Where I do, it is often an informal note to myself and I uncheck the box to print it. For example, yesterday I was entering by hand information from a County History for a man, his wife, parents, in-laws, and children into my file. I used the page number for the Citation Detail. I made a scan of the pages as pdfs and saved as Media to the citation. I sometimes transcribe the article, which I put in the Fact Note section of a custom fact I call "Bio-Note". In the citation detail section of the citation I put "John Doe Sketch" and then I unchecked the box to print that. The citation only needs the page number in order for a person to find it, but I want "John Doe Sketch" to be seen by me when I am looking at this citation in the records of his father-in-law.

I am putting more and more information directly into the sketch of the person, whether it be in the description field of a fact, or in a Fact Note, or in a completely separate fact (eg occupation from a census, where parents born from a census) and less and less in the citation detail box, which I hardly use at all anymore.

Re: Entering sources in FTM 2011

Posted: 1368550387000
Classification: Query
Craig: I think you must consider what you are sourcing. If you are creating a source for a census, you are going to be entering (FTM) the date, locations and description in the fact. I don't think this information needs to be repeated when you reference the source, as all of you need to find the census is in the fact information (Date,Location, and maybe discription). Therefore my source is just US Census Date (ie 1880), repository US NARA, and then I mentions a couple of sites that have the census images. In this way the source 1880 US census can be used for multiple facts.

On the other hand, I hand I have my Mother's notes which I use at as a source. In this I have a lot of detail about who my mother is, where she lived, who her husband was, and a lot of ects.

Another example of a source that needs a lot of description is the original minutes and genealogy information from a family reunion. In this one, beside the information I put into my Mother's notes, I have also included information on how the document came into my possession. (These are a problem for me, as I don't want the information lost for another 100 years, or lost completely)
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