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Sourcing Relationships

Sourcing Relationships

Posted: 1361468914000
Classification: Query
In FTM 2012 how do you source a parent <> child relationship? I have birth facts supported by birth certificates for an individual but I see no way of showing how I proven a specific parent / child relationship.

Re: Sourcing Relationships

Posted: 1361470361000
Classification: Query
You can create a new source from scratch or from a template.

Go to the Family tab on the People workspace
In the editing panel, click the Source citation button next to the fact you want to add the source to. (example birth)
Choose Add New Source Citation from the drop down list.
When the panel comes up click on NEW.
The template panel will come up next.
type a key word in the source template area (example birth).
A bunch of different types of templates will appear. Choose the one that is the most helpful.
Fill in the information the way you want and then you will have a permanent source citation for that particular kind of information.

It is kind of slow going the first time you do it, but it really is quick and easy once you get the hand of it.

Re: Sourcing Relationships

Posted: 1361471691000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1361471952000
Hi LdyJax

The requiestor is making a point that there is no "relationship" to which attach such a source in FTM - no structure for documenting relationships. Attaching a citation to a birth fact doesn't document the relationship, within the program.

What I use is Custom Facts and it works well for me. I have the following Custom Facts:

Link to children
Link to parents
Link to maiden name
Link to spouse
Link to siblings
Link to others

In the case of a birth certificate that names the parents, I use:

In child's record
Link to parents: John's birth cert names parents: Roy and Dale Rogers

In each of parents' records:
Link to children: John Roger's birth cert shows parents: Roy and Dale Rogers.

I will then attach the citation that you mention to each of these custom facts. (as well as to name facts and birth fact.)

Of course, one is not finished. The Big Three genealogy assertions are:

How does one know x is child of y and z and/or vice-versa
How does one know spouse of x is spouse of 1
How do we know x in one record in a place at one point in time is the same x in another record at another place at another point in time.

But, we are well on the way to documenting the relationships of that person.

Re: Sourcing Relationships

Posted: 1361475134000
Classification: Query
Why can you not go to People Person and enter the birth certificate or other documentation to the person name.

When you highlight the person name you have the option of adding notes, media, and sources directly to the name itself.

You have the same options for he Birth fact that can be used

Re: Sourcing Relationships

Posted: 1361475429000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1361475520000
For many to most people born after 1850, I have over a dozen different spelling variations that have been used for that person - so a dozen different names.

They have been posted with the "name" in many records besides any that have anything to do with proving a relationship. (Name in a WWI Draft Reg doesn't contribute to proving a relationship - except occasionally if they are the "reference" who will know where they are and "always" will be. Then, that an be used a "Link to bro/wife/mother or whoever is given" - and in the records of BOTH people.

So, in effect, what you describe does not work to document how a person has built his or her case that this person is realated to another in some way, shape, or form.

Citing a source to a name only documents what the name is, not what his or relationship to anyone is.

Re: Sourcing Relationships

Posted: 1361482142000
Classification: Query

This is exactly the situation that I am thinking of. There is no INDIVIDUAL fact that shows the direct relationship between two individuals.

From the person view if you click on the relationship tab you can set the relationship status. Also in the case of spouses you can add relationship media and notes but not relationship sources. This really isn't an issues since you can source the spousal relationship at the marriage sources tab.

I guess a custom fact is the only work around available.

Looks like the custom facts you have created are individual facts, is that correct? I see an option to create a shared fact. I have never does this. I might test that approach in trying to develop a work around.

Re: Sourcing Relationships

Posted: 1361486756000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1361486968000
Shared Facts are another term for "Marrage Facts".

FTM does not support the ASSO construct found in GEDCOM which is used to ASSOciate two individuals.

The ASSO construct or structure is similar to a fact but is not part of the fact construct. It does give the user the ability to:

1) Provide a relationship type
2) Provide a source_citation
3) Enter NOTES

Also FTM does not provide as part of the BIRTh and ADOPtion fact the ability to directly link the fact to a FAMily unit. This is also part of the GEDCOM standard, which also allows for indicating the FAMily unit that the BIRTh event was associated with or the FAMily the individual was adopted into AND which or both of the parents of that family unit.

Re: Sourcing Relationships

Posted: 1361494944000
Classification: Query
A Shared Fact only works between spouses; but we already have the marriage fact, so that doesn't give us anything additional.

But, I find, in that regard, a link to the maiden name (ie a name on headstone) is one thing and link to who the spouse is (ie daughter of who) are two different things.

Re: Sourcing Relationships

Posted: 1361505677000
Classification: Query

The collection type you are describing is not supported very well by most off the shelf software programs. In Norway we have many genealogist that build studies from multiple singular event lists of 1,000s of people. For example a list of all persons baptized at a particular church over 100 years. This list (aka Database) is then cross referenced to another list for the same 100 years of marrage events, or death events, or census or some other event over a different 100 years like deaths, and residences, or confirmations, immgrations and emmigration at the church etc. All of these lists are then compared regarding names of the person the event was for or in the case of weddings and confirmations associations (godparents, witnesses) and from that, personas are built that eventually become people. I hope that makes sence!!

This is a long winded way of saying that this form of genealogy and data collection is very different than the way a lot of people (and software programs) move up and down in a relationship tree from child to parents to siblings ...

Most of the software I've seen for this type of collection is home grown and only is moved to FTM type programs after mounds of proof have been waded through and conclusions are generated.

This is also why you have found the need to create your custom facts. I think this is a great idea, and it would be aided if you could have a better associative data entry model.

Re: Sourcing Relationships

Posted: 1361544748000
Classification: Query
Donald Varner comment

"In FTM 2012 how do you source a parent <> child relationship? I have birth facts supported by birth certificates for an individual but I see no way of showing how I proven a specific parent / child relationship"

How about just creating [some]custom facts to handle this/these situations

You can create custom facts with such tiles as
Mother of child
Father of Child
Child of Father
Child of mother
Daughter of Mother
Son of Mother


Then you would just document them the same as you do for any other record/source

For example

"The birth birth certificate of Jane Smith shows that Jane Smith is the daughter of John Smith"

This comes in handy when dcumenting census rcords, because a lot of them show that person X is the son/daughter of Person Y

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