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How to link sources to repositories for Italian records

How to link sources to repositories for Italian records

Posted: 1329502304000
Classification: Query
I have been researching for some years, currently use FTM 2010, and have more than 600 people in my tree. When I started, I did not have a guide for entering sources, and I now want to revise my source citations to be consistent with Elizabeth Mills' "Evidence Explained." Right now, I'm going through my citations for Italian civil records drawn primarily from FHL microfilms.

I assume that I should be using the Local and State Records--Vital Records template, with Local for films from a particular town and State for films from the province.

Am I correct in thinking that the repository--in this case, the FHL--can be linked only to the source in the master source list? If I try to add it under Source Repository in the template window for an individual person, I get an error message saying that I can't add it because it's already used.

Also, Mills states (p. 384) that when citing local government (in her example, county) records, "the location of the repository will typically be cited after the first reference to that county." In FTM, how would one decide which is the first reference? And would the repository then be included in the citation detail? Or is this pertinent only to publication?


Re: How to link sources to repositories for Italian records

Posted: 1329502890000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1329502914000
You have to remember that Elizabeth's work and templates tends to be *very* US-centric and that there are times when one must simply come up with something else.

Andy Hatchett

Re: How to link sources to repositories for Italian records

Posted: 1329503458000
Classification: Query
I think this is a software issue and not Mills. Her section on pp. 480-81 at least provides some models for Italian civil vital records, though not church or other records.

Re: How to link sources to repositories for Italian records

Posted: 1329513076000
Classification: Query
I use the default template myself without regard for Mills' advice, which I've never read. Nearly all of my films cover the same comune. Here's an example of one of my citations:

Decollatura, Nati 1836-1853 (Salt Lake City, Utah, USA, Family History Library), Ufficio dello stato civile, Piazza G. Perri, 5
88041 Decollatura, Film #1801723. Atto di nascita 2 ott 1836 Lo Schiavo Rosario.

Source author = Decollatura
Source title = Nati 1836-1853
Publisher name: Family History Library
Publisher location = Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Repository = Ufficio dello stato civile
Address of repository = Piazza G. Perri, 5 (carriage return) 88041 Decollatura
Citation detail = Film #1801723. Atto di nascita 2 ott 1836 Lo Schiavo Rosario.

The carriage return in the address for the repository usually makes this reference print over three lines in a report. You could format the address differently or simply not include the same information. It is, after all, a bit redundant, to have the name of the comune repeated in the address when it is also the author.

I use the generic template for a variety of reasons, but if I were to otherwise choose one, I would use the "Preservation Copy (Courts & Governance, Image Copy)", which seems to be the best match to me.

Here's what it would look like after finished:

Decollatura, Catanzaro, Calabria, Nati 1836-1853, Atto di nascita 2 ott 1836 Lo Schiavo Rosario; Ufficio dello stato civile, Piazza G. Perri, 5, 88041, Decollatura; 1801723.

State or country: Calabria
County: Catanzaro
Local jurisdiction: Decollatura
Record series: Nati 1836-1853
Record repository: Ufficio dello stato civile
Record repository location: Piazza G. Perri, 5, 88041, Decollatura
Film ID: 1801723
Source repository:
-- Name: Family History Library
-- Address: 35 North West Temple Street (carriage return)
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150
Citation detail: Atto di nascita 2 ott 1836 Lo Schiavo Rosario

I looked this up 20+ years ago, and lost whatever reference I'd originally made to where this was located on the microfilm, so that's why my citation detail is so generic.

Hope that helps.

Re: How to link sources to repositories for Italian records

Posted: 1329515227000
Classification: Query
Thanks, Marco. This format is a bit different from what Mills suggests, but it includes the relevant information. I'll have to take a look at the Preservation Copy format; I've been using the Local-State Records, Local Certificate format.

Mills suggests citing the local comune even where the film is from the province.

So, what happens when you try to enter the same repository for different sources such as birth records, processetti, etc.? The only way I seem to be able to do it is to include the repository (for me, the FHL) in the Record series line.

Re: How to link sources to repositories for Italian records

Posted: 1329516665000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1329516805000
I'm synchronizing my tree with Ancestry, so I can't look right now in FTM till it's done. In the meantime, I can say that I often re-use the same repositories for my source citations, but I always use the generic template. I'll experiment with the citations I made for this post and get back to you.

The other template you mentioned might work just as well as--or better than--the one suggested. I didn't look at it. The (reference text for the) template I used does not mention the film at the FHC other than cryptically listing the film's number with no reference to what it means. I'm not sure how someone (other than me) is supposed to know what that number signifies.

If you do want to follow Mills' advice more closely, then you might try experimenting with the templates. Perhaps you need to put some information in a field that doesn't call for it because it'll print that field in the order that Mills suggests. I don't know how many films you're working with. That could get confusing if you've got a lot--especially with an assortment of collections on each.

I'll follow up again after this confounded sync finishes (or breaks).

Re: How to link sources to repositories for Italian records

Posted: 1329518118000
Classification: Query
Thanks, Marco. I'm dealing with six and possibly more different comuni right now, all in Basilicata, just for the Italian records, and every type of record, so lots of sources to enter. This is for the one of my husband's grandparents who was Italian. I still have to fix all the other sources I have for the US, UK, and what was Russia (my family).

I gather that you are using the 2012 FTM. I bought the CD, but it arrived with a crack, so I got a refund and was going to download the new version--just to be able to use TreeSync. (I haven't put our tree on Ancestry yet.) I'm hearing that there are lots of problems with the new version, though. Is that your sense of it?


Re: How to link sources to repositories for Italian records

Posted: 1329521465000
Classification: Query
Marco, I tried out the Governance template you said that you're using, and I do think it works much better for entering the info on Italian records. It still doesn't help with the repository problem I was having, and I had to work around that by using the fields differently, but I'm able to include all the info I want, and the record approximates the citation style recommended by Mills.

I'm attaching a screen shot of one source as I had it originally using the Vital Records Local Certificate template and then using the Governance template you use. I was able to include both the provincial-level repository of the locally-produced records, which relates to the film, and the FHL info and film number. I can then add the specific year, record number, and individual names(s) as citation detail.

I maintain a spreadsheet listing all the provincial and comuni films in which I track the ones I have on loan (about 50 at this point), so I can easily copy and paste the film titles and numbers from that into the template.

Thanks again for your help. I feel like I've finally figured this out after struggling with it for days.


Re: How to link sources to repositories for Italian records

Posted: 1329537920000
Classification: Query

I had some issues with FTM 2012 synchronizing with Ancestry. It took some five hours and then failed. *Sigh*

Some people have had smoother sailing with it than I have. I suspect they have simpler trees (mine has more than 10k people) and do less with it. I run into problems when I clean up my sources and media files, especially when they're attached to sources. After numerous failures on that front, I'm probably going to sit back and wait till these issues get fixed before using it again for these tasks. I've already lost countless hours of work as I've had to unlink my tree from Ancestry several times, and you lose either stuff in FTM *or* on Ancestry every time you do that.

My advice would be to hold off until they get the software working as advertised--or I would suggest looking at some solid alternatives like the Master Genealogist. That's actually what I used while I did the lion's share of my Italian research. It's both robust and functional than FTM, but less user-friendly and not tied into a repository of records like Ancestry. The advantage of the latter is your source citations are all much much better, but it takes a *lot* more time to do.


Re: How to link sources to repositories for Italian records

Posted: 1329538573000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1329538675000
I took at look at the previous template you were using. That could work too, but I think I prefer the Governance template over it. Anyway, glad you found a way to work with one of the templates. 50 films is a lot!!! It'll be nice once you get source titles for each of the collections on the films. That might turn out to be 100 or so, which seems pretty manageable. You could perhaps simplify things by just creating a source title for each film and specifying the collection on the film (births, marriage, bans, deaths, etc.) in the citation detail instead of creating a separate title for each collection.

I have not been able to recreate the problem you've experienced with the repository. Perhaps I haven't understood it. I'm able to change any of my sources to use any of the repositories that I've created. Could you perhaps explain that one again?
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