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Capt John Richard Churchill Sabine of Muckleford 1764-1834

Capt John Richard Churchill Sabine of Muckleford 1764-1834

Posted: 1290078054000
Classification: Query
Surnames: Sabine
I have been trying to get to grips with Captain Sabine’s marriages and children. So far I have seen a variety of conflicting &/or confusing details. Some of which are below:

1) At the Society of Genealogist there is a pedigree produced by a Mr Bartelot which lists his first four children as John, Thomas, Jane and Agnes born illegitimately to Susan Newland. The Sabine book has a marriage date to Susan Newland of 22 Sept 1785 but no mention of those children.

2) The Dorset OPC site has the entry:

29 Nov 1813; Thomas MORRIS; illegitimate son of; John SABINE & Jane ; Upwey; Captain in the Dorset Militia. - (Morris might be a transcription error of Norris.)
The Ancestry transcription of the England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 shows Thomas Sabine son of John Sabine and Jane Norris for the same date & location.

3) Ancestry have a wedding at Wyke Regis, Dorset 11 Nov 1814 to a Jane Norris but the Dorset OPC have the bride as a Sarah Norris.

Ancestry has another wedding for John to Jane Norris on 06 Jul 1818 at St Mary, Newington in London. John is described as a widower. Incidentally, it was witnessed by H[enry] Plowman (my ggg-grandfather), M[ary] W[arren] Plowman (his sister) and A[gnes] Taunton who was most probably John's sister.

4) Sources for his children?:

1. Elizabeth Constance - bapt. 14Jun1795 at Putney, mother Elizabeth.
2. John - Bartelot
3. Thomas – bapt Upwey 29Nov1813 mother Jane Norris
4. Jane – bapt Bradford Peverell 17Nov1815 mother Jane
5. Agnes - Bartelot
6. Williams – bapt Bradford Peverell 16Sep1819 mother Jane
7. Margaret Julia – bapt Stratton 2Sep1821 mother Jane. Margaret is not mentioned anywhere else and so may have died as a child.
8. Richard – bapt Bradford Peverell 10May1823 mother Jane
9. Nicholas Sydenham - Bartelot

5) I’ve also found this Google snippet from the Proceedings of the Dorset Natural History and Archaeological Society , Volume 54 -1933

Will of John Richard Churchill Sabine of Muckleford, esq., four children Williams Sabine, Richard Sabine, Nicholas Sydenham Sabine and Elizabeth Sabine, recites will of his mother Agnes dated 2 May, 1805. His four other children John, Thomas, Jane and Agnes, born before legal marriage ...

Can anyone clarify any of the above?

Re: Capt John Richard Churchill Sabine of Muckleford 1764-1834

Posted: 1297249917000
Classification: Will
Surnames: SABINE
Notwithstanding the conflicting entries online I believe that full consideration of all the available evidence supports the following conclusion.

After a rather wild time as a young man John Richard Churchill Sabine settled down in his forties with the much younger Jane Norris and they had eight children together namely John, Thomas, Jane, Agnes, Williams, Richard, Nicholas Sydenham, and Elizabeth. JRC and Jane got married twice but the first marriage was deemed not to be legal so that the first four children were technically illegitimate. However, this does not appear to have had any practical or social consequences except that when JRC died the entailed part of his estate was divided between the four younger children only.

Re: Capt John Richard Churchill Sabine of Muckleford 1764-1834

Posted: 1326060171000
Classification: Query
Surnames: Sabine
I've just found details of JRCS's first marriage to Susanah Newland at South Warnborough, Hampshire on 22 Sept 1795 ( Presumably she must have died sometime between 1814 and 1818 to make JRCS's second marriage valid.

Re: Capt John Richard Churchill Sabine of Muckleford 1764-1834

Posted: 1326106799000
Classification: Query
Thank you for that. Presumably the SoG author had access to that record. Clearly the family must have regarded this marriage as a regrettable youthful indiscretion and it presumably did not last as he fathered an illegitimate daughter in 1796.

Re: Capt John Richard Churchill Sabine of Muckleford 1764-1834

Posted: 1326116603000
Classification: Query
Surnames: Sabine.
Oops, my error, 22 Sept 1785.
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