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The Ancient Line of Abranches

The Ancient Line of Abranches

Peter Almada (View posts)
Posted: 1149986149000
Classification: Query
Surnames: Abranches
Hello All Almadas and related peoples:
The ancient Line of Abranches begins, according to my sources, with Joao de Abranches, son of the first Count of Avranches (the original French spelling) Alvaro Vaz de
Almada.
It is a remarkable facet of Almada family history that one of the Portuguese Almadas created a second family name that endures to this day when he bequeathed the name of his lordship to his eldest son, Joao.
Joao de Abranches was Count of Oliva, and Lord of Llobregat and Albeza, and his son Alvaro de Abranches held the "mayorazgo" of the town of Almada and was General of
Tangiers (which is somewhere in North Africa, if I'm not mistaken)
The Abranches surname seems to have flourished in Brazil and there is a noted genealogist named Manuel Abranches de Soveral with a comprehensive website about Portuguese
genealogy.
It is my own personal theory that most of the Abranches in the world descend from that first Joao de Abranches, while
most of the Almadas in the world (whether Mexican, North
American, Portuguese, Cape Verdean, Brazilian, Spanish,
Argentinian,)descend from Alvaro Vaz de Almada.
I hope this statement is not too presumptuous, and if anyone
would like to amend the above, please by all means do so.

Obrigado and Gracias!

Peter E. Almada



Re: The Ancient Line of Abranches

Posted: 1150478220000
Classification: Query
You know you can start a project to test some of the male Y-DNA from each line to see if there is a match.

The Ancient Line of Abranches

Peter Almada (View posts)
Posted: 1152497540000
Classification: Query
Surnames: Abranches / Almada
Hello Allen:
Thanks so much for the reply.
Your email reminded me of the Iberian Peninsula DNA Project (www.familytreedna.com/surname) run by Angel Cervantes,
a history teacher and the Project Administrator.
At first glance, this appears to be a commercial service for anyone interested in having their DNA Haplogroup tested
to obtain the origin of that person's ancestor.
This site seems right up my alley, and may substantiate
the purported common ancestry of the Abranches / Almada families.
Who were once one family.
Let me know your thoughts on this Allen; perhaps you can
broaden my knowledge of DNA Haplogroups as they apply to
genealogical investigations.
Until then, take care!

Best Regards,

Peter Almada

Re: The Ancient Line of Abranches

Posted: 1152502559000
Classification: Query
Edited: 1164235493000
That project administrator is a hobbist just like anyone else on that site. While being Project Admin they can play with utility that the member of project can't.

In the Hunt surname we have a cluster of what I call Irish clan which was probably English. Rather old line in Ireland.

We have a line that was adopted into the Hunt family on another branch.

Typically the more people who get involved and including folks with a very good paper trail thing start to fall into place.

One of the biggest hurdle is all the line that are daughterd out.

To figure out the Almada and Abranches to be same line it would be recommended to have at least two male line from each family name and see how it match out. The further back in generation and being of same line the better.

In Genetic Genealogy mutation happens if it didn't we all be the same. As we are all related regardless of what your DNA result are for Genetic Genealogy.

Allen

Re: The Ancient Line of Abranches

J. Antonio (View posts)
Posted: 1154577262000
Classification: Query
Hello Peter,

It seems that you are very informed of your Almada lineage. I am not an Almada but we do share descendency. I am from the Salido line both were descended maternally from the Gonzalez de Zayas Clan. We are descendants of Juan Gonzalez de Zayas y Borboa and Francisca Loreto de Quiros. Alamos' prominant Almada, Salido, Cevallos families are descened from this family. I am currently working on an extended tree of the Salido's back to the original family in Spain.

Re: The Ancient Lines of Salido, Abranches and Almada tambien

Peter Almada (View posts)
Posted: 1156290520000
Classification: Query
Surnames: Salido, Abranches and Almada
Hello J. Antonio!

Thanks for the reply and my apologies for the belated follow

up.

Its refreshing to receive a message from the Salido side of the

family (I assume Salido is your family name) and I will add

your indispensable information (Juan Gonzalez de Zayas

Borboa and Francisca Loreto de Quiros--his wife?) to my

growing genealogical database.

That said, Almadas and Salidos are crossed over through

marriage and through friendship several times over in Mexican

history, (you must know of the great friendship between

my ggg grand uncle, Bartolo Almada and his maternal

cousin, Martin Salido).

Let's see---Luz de Almada, the wife of the first Almada in

Sonora, was the goddaughter and ward of Don Bartolome

Salido, the wealthiest merchant in Alamos and Royal

Treasurer in that same city.

He married an Elias Gonzalez de Zayas, and her sister

was the mother of Luz de Almada (Gonzalez de Zayas being

the maiden name of the mother of these two Elias Gonzalez

de Zayas)

What have you learned in terms of tracing the Salidos

back to Spain? According to the author Albert Stagg, the

Salidos were related to the Ducal House of Albuquerque (a

Portuguese name, just like Almada ).

Salido blood does flow through my veins, because Pioquinto

Almada--my ggg grandfather and brother of the

aforementioned Bartolo---was a Salido on his mother's side

(as in Trinidad Salido)

I so much would like to contribute information to your Salido

search, J. Antonio--please, anything I can do.

You mentioned Cevallos as a surname--are they interrelated

with the Salidos? (whom I understand originally hailed from

Chihuahua--but which town or city?)

Other surnames in my family tree are Bautista, Ronquillo,

Verdugo, Diaz Martinez, Andrade, Barroso, Crawford

and Mckinnon.

What are your family surnames beyond Salido?

Thanks again for answering my email J. Antonio, and I

look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,

Peter Almada














Re: The Ancient Lines of Salido, Abranches and Almada tambien

J.Antonio (View posts)
Posted: 1156355350000
Classification: Query
Hello Peter,

It apears our ancestors were the same. As I mentioned I have been worrking on a project on the Salido family of whom you are also a descendant. But our History (Almada and Salido) goes farther than that. Both founders Bartolome Salido and Antonio Almada y Reyes arrived in Alamos 100 years after its inception. Among the first families who settled in ALamos were the Gonzalez de Zayas Clan who have been incorrectly linked as descendants of the military General Francisco Elias Gonzalez de Zayas. These two families are seperate and allthough the General was undoubtably a relative, our line does not contain the Elias name. Although Albert Staggs writings are good this was one of a few errors I found in his book.

The Gonzalez de Zayas family along with their close kin the Campoy, Borboa, Gastelum, Valenzuela, and Quiros families made up Alamos' colonial minning elite. It is through the Gonzalez de Zayas family that the prominant Alamos families Santiago de Palomares, Almada, Salido, and Gonzalez de Cevallos families descend.

Bartolome Salido was married to Maria Barbara Gonzalez de Zayas y Quiros. Daughter of the wealthy miner Don Juan Gonzalez de Zayas and Francisca Loreto de Quiros. Barbaras sister was Petra Gonzalez de Zayas y Quiros. She married the wealthy miner and Capt. Julian de Alvardo. After their deaths Bartolome and Barbara were the care takers of their niece Luz de Alvarado your ancestor.

The Salido family is from Ubeda in the provence of Jaen in Andalusia. Yes they are related to the prominant de la Cueva( Dukes Alburquerque) family as well as the prominent Vazuez de Molina family of the aforementioned town Ubeda. The name is Patronomic and was given to the descendents of Don Nuno Salido who was killed fighting the moors in the hills of Araviana. He is entombed next to three queens of navarre as well as the seven Infantes of Lara in m.onestary in La Roija. I have traced Bartolome Back 3 generations on both sides but I am still working on my project.

Here is my email if you would like to corespond
calitrade@hotmail.com




Re: The Ancient Lines of Salido, Abranches and Almada tambien

Peter Almada (View posts)
Posted: 1156379702000
Classification: Query
Surnames: Salido and Almada
Hello J. Antonio:

Wow! Thanks so much for getting back to me. Its appreciated.

This is some heady stuff you're writing!

Thanks for fact-checking Albert Stagg's "Almadas and

Alamos," I did not know "Elias" was not in our family lines.

Based on your clarification, can you confirm Luz de

Alvarado's full name (before marrying Antonio Almada y

Reyes) was Dona Luz de Alvarado y Gonzalez de Zayas?

(Stagg included the "Elias" in her name, if I remember

correctly)

This "Nuno Salido" sounds like a fascinating character (a

Spanish Knight "Caballero" I presume?) What century

did Nuno live in and, according to your sources, was he

the earliest known Salido? (Vasco de Almada of Portugal,

circa 1270, was the earliest known Almada, that I know of)

Interesting that you mentioned "La Rioja" Spain, because

according to the author James E. Officer, in his "Hispanic

Arizona", the Elias family originated in La Rioja, in Soto de

los Cameros.

Back to Albert Stagg, there is a photograph in his book

"Almadas and Alamos" visually identifying El Chato Almada

(Jose Maria Tranquilino, my ggg grand cousin? Not sure

about that), but in fact, I think the photo is Toribio Almada,

his brother.

Can you confirm the above?

Thanks again for the information J. Antonio, and I look

forward to further correspondence!

Best Regards,

Peter Almada








Re: The Ancient Lines of Salido, Abranches and Almada tambien

J. Antonio (View posts)
Posted: 1156390900000
Classification: Query
Hello Peter,

I believe her full name was Maria Lucilla de la luz Alvarado y Gonzalez de Zayas. Nuno Salido was from Andalucia, as were all of the Salidos originally. He was the teacher of the Kings seven grandsons who were called los Siete Infantes de Lara. They died along with Nuño and were buried in the same monestary during the crusades. Do a google search of Nuño Salido and you will find allot of information. Also look of La Palacio de Dean Ortega Salido.

If you have the Book by James officer you will see that he as well states that the Gonzalez de Zayas family of Alamos is seperate from the Elias Gonzalez family of Terenate. They were undoubtably relatives but we are not descended from that side. It is in the appendix. I have not found one church record or other that states Elias with the exception of Joaquin Elias Gonzalez de Zayas, in this case it was his middle name.

Also I have a copy of Bartolome Salido's dispensation for marriage and it states the names of his future inlaws as Juan Gonzales de Zayas deceased and Maria Francisca Loreto de Quiros of Alamos dated 1775. Also Bartolome was not a merchant, he was a royal treasurer and owned several haciendas and Silver mines.

I am afraid I only have information on the Almadas who married into the Salido family. I would not be able to confirm the Picture of el Chato.

Re: The Ancient Lines of Salido, Abranches and Almada tambien

Peter Almada (View posts)
Posted: 1156468919000
Classification: Query
Surnames: Salido, Almada, Lara
Hello J. Antonio:

Thanks so much for the reply, and for keeping the Almada

Message Board alive!

Nuno Salido seems to be a seminal figure in Andalucian

history. I am assuming that the Siete Infantes de Lara whom

he tutored were from the House of Lara? If so, then this is

ironic, because it was the Marquis of Aguilar, Manrique de

Lara, who married Brazaida de Almada of Portugal ( a

handmaiden in the entourage of the Portuguese Queen. We're

talking 15th century)

Indeed I have the book by James Officer, and yes, he does

make the point that the Elias Gonzalez de Zayas were

separate from the Gonzalez de Zayas. (Officer, like alot

of Mexican History writers, relies heavily on the works of

Francisco R. Almada, the preeminent historian of Chihuahua)

Wow! You have a copy of the "Marriage Ban" of Bartolome

Salido?! Are you his direct descendant?

You said you had information on the Almadas who married

into the Salido family; this would include Ignacio Almada

who married Trinidad Salido, and their son, Bartolome E.

Almada, who married Antonia Cevallos y Salido.

Any other information on Salido-Almada unions?

Thanks again for all your information J. Antonio, and let me

know your progress on the Salido Project (an outstanding idea

long overdue)

Best Regards,

Peter Almada











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