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Thoms Surname Scottish/German Connection

Thoms Surname Scottish/German Connection

Posted: 1205011430000
Classification: Immigration
Surnames: Thoms, MacThomas
I received the following material from Hamish Thoms (cousin of Andrew MacThomas of Finegand, Chief of the Clan MacThomas) a couple of years ago. The original material belongs to Brian Turnbull. I contacted Mr. Turnbull and obtained his permission to share this information. I hope you enjoy reading this little bit of Thoms family history.

The Thoms family discussed here are connected to the Thoms of Aberlemeno (the Chiefly line of the Scottish Clan MacThomas).

The Clan, AYE!

Bobby Thomas,
Wake Forest, NC

Transcript of a letter sent in 1988 from Walter Praetorius to Griselda Turnbull about the German branch of the Thoms family Original manuscript is with Brian Turnbull.

Dear Griselda,

Looking at the genealogical tree you will notice that your direct ancestors go back to the eldest, mine to the second son of our common great-great-grandfather George Thoms, and his wife Elizabeth Hunter.

My great-grandfather Henry Thoms (1798 – 1846) was a merchant. As such, he emigrated from Dundee to Riga, which was then a completely German town belonging, however, to the Russian empire.

[The German Riga (now capital of the Soviet Republic of Latvia) was founded by Bishop Adalbert of Bremen in 1201 with the help of the German Knights of the Sword (a semi-clerical order). The Knights became feudal masters in what was then called Estland (capital: Reval), Livland (capital: Riga) and Kurland where they owned large estates. German merchants settled in the towns. In the Middle Ages, Riga became a Hanseatic town (Hanse = League of German trading centres).]

At the age of 40, he married the German girl Emilie Nölting who then was 23. After having had four children together – Eliza, Henry, George and Jessie – he died, rather young, at the age of 48. In 1854 she married a second time: Eduard Hollander (1820 – 1897) an important and very humane personality who was to be the last Lord Mayor of German Riga before the Russians turned the whole administration of Riga Russian.

My grandfather Henry (1841 – 1904) was at a British school (I do not know where,
but suppose that it was in Dundee and that during that time he lived in his uncle Patrick’s house who was provost of Dundee) in his early youth and did not return home to Riga before 1856. I suppose that my great-grandmother must have thought that she owed her husband, deceased so early, to give their son a proper British education. At any rate when he returned in 1856 he could not speak German and as, unfortunately, his mother and stepfather were not at home that day, he had some pains in finding where he belonged. He completed his education and training as a merchant, and rather well-to-do too. Later on he also became Brazilian consul, and was always called “The Consul”.

My grandmother Hanna Berg must have been a particularly beautiful woman. Unfortunately she died of consumption when she was only 32 which was when my mother was only one year old. So my mother grew up motherless which, I think, is very hard for any child.

At the houses of my great-grandfather and grandfather everybody spoke German, although everybody knew English (and some French and Russian). My mother even got a British passport in 1895 (Miss Hanna M Thoms (British subject) travelling on the Continent) signed by Salisbury, Secretary of Foreign Affairs which is now in my possession.

My mother married Richard Praetorius also in Riga. The Praetorius family spoke German as the Thomses but, whereas the latter were British, the Praetoriuses were Russian subjects. After their marriage my parents moved to Varsaw in Poland (which was also part of the Russian Empire at that time). My father was a merchant at Varsaw from 1898 to 1914. There my eldest sister Emily (b 1899), my elder brother Hans Richard (b 1905) and my little sister Ilse (b 1902), who died of poliomyelitis at the age of two, and myself were born.

When I was 3, World War I broke out. As a Russian subject, my father had to serve in the Russian army which was in war with Germany and Austria. We all, our family as well as the many relatives in Riga were Germans in our hearts, but stood – as we felt – on the wrong front. Our hope and belief was that the war would only last for a short time, and then everything would be settled peacefully and life would go on as before. Of course we could not go to Germany, because that would have meant to cross the frontier. But an uncle of ours, who lived on the River Volga in Russia and was rather wealthy, possessing a big house in Saratow and a dacha in the country – a so-called Volga German who had married a sister of my father – invited us to Saratow. And there my mother with Emily, Hans and myself stayed up to the Russian Revolution in 1917 when the Bolsheviks occupied (better: seized) my uncle’s house. We could not return to Varsaw at an earlier date because, in the meant!
ime, it had been conquered by the Germans.

We managed – together with my uncle’s family – to travel to Riga and from there
to Varsaw where we moved into our old apartment, which we found as we had left it. Nothing had been damaged or stolen. In the meantime, my father had also returned from the front. A new problem arose when Poland was founded as a country of its own, independent from Russia. We had to decide whether we were willing to opt and thus become Polish or to leave the country. We chose the latter, moved to Berlin and lived there afterwards.

My brother Hans married in Berlin and had a son, Gerhard and two step children,
a boy and a girl. Hans fell as a German soldier in France in 1940. His wife Edith died several years later of consumption. Gerhard has become a gardener and owns a shop and a house in West Berlin.

My father died in 1938, my mother in 1947 and Emily in 1965. I married in 1942 and after the war settled in Goslar with my wife Friederike. We have four children. Richard and Cornelia are the only ones who are married.

Now all this is rather scanty, and there may be slight mistakes. Besides I do not know what you are particularly interested in. Much else could be told in this context but I have tried to concentrate upon the essentials.

Now, at any rate for the moment, I am empty. If you should have questions, please ask again.


Re: Thoms Surname Scottish/German Connection

Posted: 1205011701000
Classification: Query
I found the following Thoms Family Tree on-line at:

This is the same Thoms family referenced in the post above. Enjoy!

Bobby Thomas,
Wake Forest, NC


A Patrick Hunter Thoms DL JP b 1796 Dundee d 1882 Dundee Provost of Dundee 1847-1853
A = Grace Watt b 1798 Dundee m 1830 Dundee d 1868 Dundee

B1 George Hunter MacThomas Thoms FRSA FSA b 1831 Dundee d 1903 Edinburgh Sheriff Orkney & Zetland

B2 Thomas Watt Thoms b 1833 Dundee d 1897 Dundee Accountant
B = Rachel Jameson Duncan b 1841 Chittagong, India m 1869 Dundee d 1905 Edinburgh

C1 Grace Catherine Thoms b 1870 Dundee d 1944 Bideford
C= Rev. Bernard Hallowes MA b 1869 Punjab m 1900 Invergowrie d 1951 Beaminster Rector of Langtree

D1 Rachel Louisa Hallowes b 1901 Brackenfield d 1980 Yeovil
D = Etienne Henry Tudor Boileau b 1902 London m 1935 Langtree d 1985 Yeovil
E1 Valerie Mary Grace Boileau b 1936 Bideford
E2 Etienne Raymond Ridley Boileau b 1937 Bideford
E = Harriet Lucy Barnes b ?
F1 Helen Rachel Boileau b ?
F2 Robert Henry Nicholas Boileau b 1976
F3 Charles Anthony Maurice Boileau b 1978
E3 Diana Margaret Rosalind Boileau b 1942

D2 Michael Duncan Hallowes b 1903 Brackenfield d 1994 Bedford Headmaster RGS Guildford
D = Agnes Ursula Usborne b 1909 Frinton m 1933 Burley d 1986 Hurstpierpoint
E1 Erica Mildred Hallowes b 1934 Slinfold
E = Michael Douglas Henderson b 1932 Ealing m 1966
F Juliet Rachel Erina Henderson MA b 1972 London
G Lola Jo Henderson-Thomas b 2003 Pasadena
E2 Rupert Brabazon Usborne Hallowes b 1936 d 1943
E3 Paul John Bernard Hallowes b 1940 Horsham
E = 1 Bridget Sykes b 1936 m 1970 d 1992
F1 Rupert John Michael Hallowes b 1971
F = Sonia (from Bulgaria)
G Alexander Paul Michael Hallowes b 2003
F2 Louisa Catherine Hallowes b 1972
F = Henry Allen
G John Paul Allen b 2003
F3 Thomas Paul Brabazon Hallowes b 1975
E = 2 Mary Eastman m 1994
E4 Rachel Margaret Hallowes b 1943 Horsham
E = David Alastair Neal m 1971
F1 Alastair John Ernest Neal b 1974
F = Hannah Barnes m 2003
F2 Hilary Ursula Rachel Neal b 1976
E5 Francis Michael Usborne Hallowes b 1945 Horsham
E = Elizabeth Guest m 1996

D3 Austin Hallowes b 1904 Brackenfield d c.1935 ?Canada
D4 Thomas Eustace Brabazon Hallowes b 1906 Shirland d 1945 Myingyan, Burma

D5 Grace Vyvyan Hallowes b 1908 Shirland d 1994 Wallingford
D = Edward Pellew-Harvey b 1906 Blackheath m 1930 Langtree d 1994 Dorchester
E1 Ann Pellew-Harvey b 1932 Mitcham
E = David Gore b 1930
F Alison, Sarah, Marcus, Richard, Diana, Philippa Gore
E2 Judith Pellew-Harvey b 1934 Mitcham
E = Alan Smith
F Paul, Belinda, Mark, Chania Smith
E3 William Bernard Pellew-Harvey b 1941 North Walsham
E = 1 Maria Chedotal
F Adrian Pellew-Harvey
E = 2 Barbara McGrath b 1953 Texas
F Warren, Alix, Jordan, Grace Pellew Harvey
E4 Catherine Elizabeth Pellew-Harvey b 1943 North Walsham
E = Roger Morris m 1970
F Lisa Morris
E5 Stephen Brabazon Pellew-Harvey b 1953

C2 Alfred Patrick MacThomas Thoms LLB WS b 1871 Dundee d 1958 Edinburgh
C = Evelyn Charteris Black b 1883 Edinburgh m 1908 Glasgow d 1968 Budleigh Salterton

D1 Patrick Watt MacThomas of Finegand b 1909 Edinburgh d 1970 Cambridge 18th Chief
D = Elizabeth Clayhills b 1910 Rothbury m 1941 Rothbury d 1995 Edinburgh
E1 Andrew Patrick Clayhills MacThomas of Finegand b 1942 Alnwick 19th Chief
E = Anneke Kruyning van-Hout b 1956 Netherlands m 1985 London
F1 Thomas David Alexander MacThomas b 1987 London
F2 Amy Elizabeth Susanna MacThomas b 1989 London
E2 Elizabeth Gillian MacThomas b 1949 Edinburgh

D2 Colin Edwin Sutherland Thoms b 1912 Edinburgh d 1997 Glasgow
D = Anne Mortimer Whyte MA b 1917 Penn m 1951 London
E1 Mary Sutherland Thoms MA b 1952 Aberdeen
E = Bengt Grundberg b 1948 Helsingborg, Sweden m 1979 Aberdeen
F1 Louise Anne Lillemo Grundberg b 1982 London
F2 Kristina Mary Grundberg b 1985 London
E2 Anne Vanessa Thoms b 1954 Aberdeen
E = Yoshiro Oyama b 1949 Nagano, Japan m 1978 Aberdeen
F1 Emily MacThomas Oyama b 1982 Barnstaple
F2 Lisa Yukiko Oyama b 1986 Chigasaki, Japan
E3 Jeremy Colin Whyte Thoms b 1961 Aberdeen
E = 1 Hazel McIntosh MA b 1966 Inverness m 1996 Edinburgh div 2004
F Alexander Colin Thoms b 1997 Edinburgh
E = 2 Laura Jane Christine Oliver b 1975 m 2006 Edinburgh

D3 Kenneth Ogilvie Thoms ARIBA b 1915 Edinburgh d 1984 Lympstone
D = Sylvia Anne Elizabeth Evans b 1926 Kenya m 1951 Kenya
E1 Graham Kenneth Thoms b 1952 Kenya
E = Sandra Chin b 1964 Malaysia m 2003 Niagara Falls
F Wendy Ann Thoms b 1988 Philippines
E2 Arthur Keith Thoms b 1954 Kenya
E = Karen Maria Fun b1967 Moordrecht, Netherlands m 1999 Winchester
F1 Isobel Gwendolen Maria Thoms b 2000 Chertsey
F2 Casper Jannes Thoms b 2002 Chertsey

D4 Griselda Rachel Grace Thoms b 1916 Edinburgh d 2003 Budleigh Salterton
D = D1 Phipps Turnbull OBE b 1916 Calcutta m 1942 London d 1997 Budleigh Salterton
E1 Brian Phipps Turnbull MA, FCA b 1944 Edinburgh
E = Rowan Mary Patricia Burnett BA b 1946 Seascale m 1972 Eskdale
F1 Alistair Phipps Turnbull MA, MSci b 1975 Cambridge
F2 Susannah Grace Turnbull MBA, BA b 1977 Cambridge
F3 Marion Marjorie Turnbull MA, MSc b 1979 Lyon, France
E2 Roger Douglas Turnbull BA, MSc, MRTPI b 1946 Edinburgh
E = Mary Susan Elizabeth Young b 1951 m 1981 Milton Lilborne
F1 Eleanor Rachel Turnbull b 1983 London
F = Gareth Paul Jones b 1984 Bangor m 2007 East Hendred
F2 Robert Patrick Turnbull b 1984 London
F3 Nicholas Kenneth Turnbull b 1987 London

E3 Julian Patrick Turnbull ACIS b 1951 St Andrews
E = Sara Ann Borns b 1952 m 1978 Seer Green
F1 James Harry Turnbull BA b 1980 Taplow
F2 George William Turnbull b 1983 Ascot

C3 Henry James MacThomas (Harry) Thoms b 1874 Dundee d 1940 Tunbridge Wells
C = Amy Hilda Surridge b 1879 Coggeshall m 1904 Coggeshall d 1972 Coggeshall

D1 Bernard Hunter Jameson Thoms P Eng b 1905 Edinburgh d 1974 Victoria BC, Cmdr RN, RCN
D = Cynthia Mary Richmond Fell b 1909 Nelson NZ m 1934 Colchester
E1 Charles Robert Hunter (Robin) Thoms b 1936
E = 1 Emma Jean Thames b 1940 Pensacola, Fla m 1959 div
F1 Charles Roderick Thoms b 1961 Halifax, Nova Scotia
F = Carolyn Holder b 1965 m 1996
G1 Evan Charles Douglas Thoms b 1998 Hamilton, Bermuda
G2 Danielle Marie Thoms b 1999 Hamilton, Bermuda
F2 Pamela Ann Thoms b 1964 d 1964
F3 Pamela Rachel Lorraine Thoms b 1965 Halifax, Nova Scotia
F = Kevin Russell b 1962 m 1995 Captain US Navy
G1 Emma Leah Russell b 1998 Washington DC
G2 Logan Jameson Russell b 2001 Lima, Peru
E = 2 Sarah Klien b 1952 Nahariah, Israel m 1981 Courtney BC
F1 Sharon Ann Thoms b 1983 Regina, Saskatchewan
F2 Keren Rachel Thoms b 1986 Regina, Sakatchewan
E2 Hamish Jameson Thoms MFA b 1945 Bath adopted
E = Caulene Marie Salva BA b 1949 Fernie BC m 1970 Calgary, Alberta
F1 Jennifer Jeanne Thoms BFA b 1971 Calgary, Alberta
G Ashley Bree Thoms b 1990 Newmarket, Ont
F2 Caroline Marie Thoms b 1974 Calgary, Alberta
F = Michael John Allain b 1963 Pembroke, Ont m 1999 Victoria BC
G1 Taejia Marie Allain b 2001 Maple Ridge BC
G2 Lucas Michael Allain b 2004 Maple Ridge BC

D2 Harry Duncan MacThomas Thoms b 1908 Dundee d 1982 London
D = 1 Joan Winifred Mudd m 1943 div 1955
D = 2 Alberta Wielopolska-Palkova d 2003

D3 Geoffrey Surridge Thoms MB ChB b 1908 Dundee d 1949 London
D = Ursula Elizabeth Duncan-Jones b 1919 Primrose Hill m 1947 Chichester d 2007 Chichester
[Note: She subsequently married Christopher Baily 1959]
E Gavin Malcolm MacThomas Thoms MD b 1948 Bognor Regis
E = 1 Alison Mary Fowlie m 1972 div
E = 2 Jenny Simpson b 1954 Stockport m 1981
F1 Susannah Lindsay Thoms b 1981 Sheffield
F2 Christopher Duncan Thoms b 1983 Sheffield
F3 Melissa Jennie Thoms b 1992 Manchester

D4 Brenda Yvonne Mary Thoms b 1913 Dundee d 2004 Ottawa
D = George Edwin (Ted) Beament OBE CM QC b 1908 Ottawa m 1941 Oxford d 2005 Ottawa
E1 Justin Geoffrey Beament FRSA b 1942 Cambridge
E = Sally Neale m 1967 Reigate div 2003
F1 Daniel MacThomas Beament b 1973 Norfolk
F = Claire Dunn b ? m 2001 Knowsely Hall
G Thomas Henry Beament b 2003 Coventry
F2 Matthew Henry Beament b 1979 Exeter

E2 Meriel Virginia Mary Beament MA b 1944 Fetcham Surrey
E = Alick James (Jim) Bradford MA b 1938 Wimbledon m 1965 Ottawa
F1 Ariana Yvonne Bradford MA b 1969 Toronto
F = Simon Grocott PhD b 1969 Regina Saskatchewan m 1993 Ottawa
G1 Oliver Duncan Grocott b 1999 Toronto
G2 Sebastian James Grocott b 2001 Toronto
G3 Adrian Peter Grocott b 2004 Toronto
F2 James Dominic Bradford BA BEd b 1972 St Catherines Ont
F = Tiffani Ann Fraser MA m 1998 Stratford Ontario
F3 Justin Bartholomew (Tolly) Bradford MA b 1976 Ottawa

C4 Emily Rachel Thoms b 1877 Dundee d 1954 Portsmouth
C = Harry Robertson McGill Colonel b 1872 Poona m 1910 India d 1940 Jersey, Lt. Col. 90th Punjabis

D1 John Malcolm McGill b 1910 Farnham d 1944 Imphal, Burma Killed in action, Major 2nd/9th GR

D2 Richard Patrick Thoms McGill DSO b 1912 Mussorie, India d 1971 Rhodesia, Lt. Col. 1st/8th GR
D = Frances Tyndale-Biscoe b 1908 Kashmir m 1942 Kashmir d 1990 Exeter
E1 Richard Malcolm McGill b 1942 Srinagar, Kashmir
E2 Ian Donald Tyndale McGill CBE BSc FICE b 1946 Quetta Brigadier Royal Engineers
E = Mary Frances Willett b 1948 m 1970 Chichester
F1 David Richard McGill MA b 1972 London
F = Elizabeth M Stewart BA b 1977 m 2006 Abingdon
F2 Anna Katherine McGill MA b 1974 London
E3 Julia Andrea Rachel McGill BA b 1948 Rhodesia
E = Andrew Maynard b 1945 Taunton m 1975 Bosham div
F Mark William Richard Maynard BA b 1979 Exeter

D3 Alastair Fitzgerald “Jerry” McGill OBE b 1914 Farnham d 1998 Sussex Brigadier Royal Signals
D = Margaret Joy Pownall b 1921 m 1945 d 1988

D4 Nigel Harry Duncan McGill CB b 1916 Mussorie, India Major-General Royal Marines
D = Margaret Constance Killen b 1921 Durban m 1944 Dorking
E1 Sarah Margaret McGill b 1946 Troon
E = Anthony Miller b 1942 m 1973
F1 Alastair Miller b 1976
F2 Duncan Miller b 1978
F = Amy ? b ? m 2004
F3 Josephine Miller b 1981
E2 Peter Malcolm McGill b 1947 Instow Major Queen’s Regiment
E = Claire Robson b 1947 m 1976
F1 James McGill b 1977 Captain A & S Highlanders
F = Heather Madel m 2005 Harpenden
F2 Rosemary McGill b 1980
E3 John McGill b 1951 Malaya

C5 Edith Eliza Thoms b 1880 Dundee d
C = Ernest Crawford Walker m 1908
D Elspeth Walker b

B3 Grace Scott Thoms b 1834 Dundee d 1917
B = John Anderson MD LLD FRS b 1833 m 1870 Dundee d 1900 Professor of Zoology and Curator, Calcutta

B4 Eliza Thoms b 1836 Dundee d 1851 Dundee

If you can help with missing information or corrections, please contact:

Brian Turnbull, Hayes, Church Road, Colaton Raleigh, Sidmouth, Devon EX10 0LH Tel: +44 1395 567339Email: Version: 13/08/07
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