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Lookup request from the "Book of McKee"

Replies: 56

Re: Lookup request from the "Book of McKee"

Posted: 1343488290000
Classification: Query
Hello Matt,

Let me share an exchange of this morning with yourself and the readers here on this forum:

Hello Everyone,

Great email Jerry!! I concur without reserve.

Hello 237948, Welcome................

Everyone, ...........FTDNA 67 markers tested results are just in for 237948 and.................... add more icing to our cake, I have just had a 67 marker match notice from FTDNA for McKee at 127187 and new member McKee at 237948. Best match is with the author of the immediate 64/67.........the best match in the entire 67 marker result database for each of them. Second best match is with McKee and third is again with McGee. So, if the proof is in the pudding, then there it is again.


On 7/28/2012 8:44 AM, McGee wrote:
My intellect certainly does not reach to the level of Craig, Bill or Alan but I am very much in agreement with this writing from Craig. I have, for several years, been studying the broader history of the Celts. I am in the same camp as Craig when it comes to his comment of "the great big circle". I am not however disagreeing with Mr. Howard
as I feel there is room for both theories in the melting pot.

The history and pronunciation of names is interesting to me as well. I do not subscribe to the idea that one can trace their family tree by the spelling of a name but I do believe once one gets past the limits of a paper trail then the name can provide a historical base to work from. I also believe the pronunciation of the numerous variations of our common name may be significant in determining our common origin.

My experience with clerks and others has been very similar to Craig. I noticed when in Northern Ireland those I was able to identify as being of Scots heritage (by name) tended to call me MacAye while those in the Republic tended to say MacEE. It seems without question to me that many families of McGee, McKee and McKay are related, as the comparison charts Linda has sent us this past week prove. We are all currently pondering the origins of M222, whether the kinship is 100 years or 1000 years, in the context of M222, does not seem significant to me.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Lowland Scotland data from Mr. Milliken
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:48:41 -0700

My knowledge on these matters is extremely sparse. Whatever happened, happened in Galloway 1000 years ago long before written records began. Mr. Millikan certainly has touched the source of whatever information exists in the Dumfries library. It starts about 500 years too late for our purposes here unfortunately. He is most certainly right about settlement being extremely 'old'. Personally, I cannot abide long hours in old records on microfilm in libraries.

However, may I quote you a passage from Moffat and Wilson:

"In the late ninth and early tenth century, the kaleidoscope was twisted once more when some of the Celto-Norse peoples of the Hebrides migrated south. Because they spoke Gaelic but were descended from Vikings, they became known as the Gall-Gaidheal and they gave their name to Galloway. It means 'the Land of the Stranger Gaels'." p.194

These people were a fierce lot who took over Galloway completely and it became a Gaelic-speaking kingdom in its own right, as in King Fergus of Galloway (circa 1000 AD). The people who were there previously were Britons and Welsh and some may have stayed and were graciously left alive.

Now, in the Macaiodh legend, some proportion of the people moved south from Sutherland in the 11th century after a lost battle of some description if I recall correctly. The destination is not specified but it does not seem unreasonable to propose that some may have settled in Galloway to join the community of 'Stranger Gaels'. Also by
legend, the original ancestors of the kindred line came from northern Ireland to Sutherland in the 3-400s, and also as a result of losing some sort of conflict. So in effect there is a great big circle, starting in the 3rd century in Ireland and completing with the plantation settlement of Ulster by people from Galloway. M222 was obviously along for the ride. Viking Gaels from the Hebrides would not likely have been carriers of M222 it seems to me. In any case, my guys were there in Galloway by the late 1100s it would seem almost a certainty now, wherever they came from.

BTW, I remain of the view that something special was going on to account for the unusually rapid proliferation and multiplication of M222 in the population. By something special I would continue to suspect that it was embedded in a well fed, well off warrior elite with many slaves and wide sexual access. The Howard paper rejects this idea by saying that the expansion was in normal parameters which it
may well have been the case BUT other lines may have died out (to put it in genteel terms) to make the room. Who knows. It is a very interesting and in my view highly unusual demographic dynamic whatever was going on since high infant mortality and low life expectancy was the norm and the Black Death of the mid 1300s killed off upwards of
50% of the population. None of this seems to obviously square with 3m. living males worldwide today, at least to me.

As far as I am aware, the people who were my ancestors always were called Macaoidh (pronounced MacEye). However, the inclination of ordinary people on the street in Dumfries today is to pronounce it MacEE). Notwithstanding this fact, most of the McKies alive today still pronounce it in the original fashion. This leads me to believe that the people and thus the name really did come from Sutherland and Caithness very early on. In the south at the time of the first poll tax, some could well have been recorded with a phonetic-noncompliant spelling and came to pronounce it differently. Canada's current defence minister is named MacKay (the 'official' anglicization). His
father pronounces it MacEye and the current guy pronounces it MacEh. I think he just gave up which is not surprising.

My test of the phonetics hypothesis is the behaviour of Safeway clerks who are instructed to address customers here as Mr. Smith or whatever based on the client card records. Most of them here pronounce me as Mr. MacEE but the occasional one gets it right. I usually ask why and the answer is invariably, "oh it was my aunt's name' or some such lineage contact reason.


This is just an example of where we are in our genetic genealogy research right now. It is a very exciting time to be a family history researcher and to also be working on your family member's yDNA and autosomal DNA.

I am also at lasm4mck @ without the spaces.
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