Thursday,15 November, 2012
Andries Albertsen Bratt born ab. 1638-1640
Likely third son of Albert Andriessen Brat (ab. 1607-ab. 1686) and Annetje Barents (ab. 1607-by 1662) marr. 1632 (archief Amsterdam)
Andries has no baptismal date, and he was not born in 1654 as his mother would have been 47 years old ; his birth date is not after 1647, logical placement would be around 1638/42.
There is no original documentation for “Andries Albert de Sweedt” . Munsell and Pearson give such statement without original source. Andries was born in New Netherland, Albany County likely in the colony of Rensselaerwyjck, where his father Albert Andriessen Bratt resided to mid 1660. His father Albert shows original documentation as “Albert de Noorman” ( originating from Norway) as does his uncle “Arent de Noorman” (Oct. 1664 Early records…)
Andries Albertse Bratt, Dirck Albertsen Bratt and Jan Albertsen Bratt appear at times as Andries de Noorman, Dirk de Noorman and Jan de Noorman also with the spelling “Aelberts”
The first recorded “Bratt” name appears in 1677 (Annals of Albany…)
There is no reason why Andries would be recorded as “de Sweedt”
3 June 1662 Recorded as minor “… minors Andries, Jan and Dirck Alberts….” The sequence could pertain to the birth order, later evidence makes it most likely that Andries was older than Jan and Dirck. (Early records of the city…)
28 May 1663 “Andries Albertse” rec. in court of Rensselaer. Symon Turck names Gerart Swart his special attorney in a suit against Andries Alberten, no details. This seems to prove that he turned 25 years of age or was married by that date (Early records of the city… p. 218)
The law said “… no minor person may appear in judgment without consent and assistance of their guardian… (From Commentaries on the Roman Dutch Law by Simon van Leuuwen, written late 17 cent. Publ. 1881) A married person under 25 years of age was considered an adult.
Pertaining to prevailing social customs of the time it was highly unlikely that a man would marry age 18-21, although, especially in the later 17th century women married at times age 17 or 18.
“Married ab. 1665 Unknown” (From Rootsweb Archives 2003 et al. by Peter Christoph )
1666.. “.. Andries Alberts rented a large pall from the church” (presumable for his wife)
26 May 1666. “Andries Albertsen” and Marritie Appel are sponsors to baptism of Cornelia of Thomas Lodovycse and Geesje Barents in NA . Geesje is cousin to Andries Albertsen. There is no known connection to Marritie Appel.
3 Mar. 1669/70 court recording for “Andries Aelberts” 1st default. (Minutes of the court… 1668-1675…)
30 Jan. 1671 court recording as witness ( ibid)
6 Jul. 1671 court decision that he and others may not enjoy land in Schenectady (ibid)
Oct. 1674 He bought ½ of a sawmill
1677 recorded (NEHGS) as “Andries Albertsen Bratt” return of money paid for a horse stolen in New England (NEHGS)
3 June 1679 Andries Albertsen Bratt : Dissolution of partnership with Jan Jacobse Gardenier …” who has beaten and abused him so he is sickly and unable to defend himself… the partnership contract goes to 29 Nov. 1679 with Luycas Pieters..(Minutes of the court of Albany, Rensselaer…)
3 Dec. 1679 Andries Albertsen Bratt: Asking the pardon of the court for his abusive language during the trial of his brother Dirk Albertsen Bratt. Fined 20 fl. (The trial pertained to Dirk was severely injured by a knife wound in his back from Jan Cornelise Vyselar (aka Jan Gow) The court also fined Dirk because he had instigated the fight. Andries was swearing in court, later claimed he was exceedingly drunk. (Minutes of the court….)
3 Jan. 1681/2 Andries Albertsen Bratt witness (ibid)
6 Dec. 1681 Andries Albertse Bratt is fined 200 fl. For assault on Lowrys Cobes and also fined for beating Jan Gow.
7 Feb. 1681/2 Andries Albertsen Bratt defendant for stryking Lowys Cobes, witness Marten Cregier said “he saw the Noorman swing at him but did not hit him…”
5 Mar. 1682 Andries Albertsen Bratt: Gives mortgage for his ½ of the sawmill (Early records…)
29 Apr. 1682 Andries Albertsen Bratt: he leased a farm from Pieter Pietersen Woggelum and gave it up before 19 July 1683 (Early records…)
5 Dec. 1682 Andries de Noorman: Recorded with Jan Buys coming from Halve Maen… (ibid)
11 Oct. 1683 Andries de Noorman: several women calling Grietge, wife of Pieter van Wuggelum his mistress and whore, a lengthy trial Andries did not give any testimony, on 20 Oct. 1683 the case is dismissed. This record does not accuse Andries of adultery, so it is likely he was not married. (Early records..)
Note: Pieter Pieterse Woggelum 1654-1725 marr. 1) Margrietge Alberts (of Albert Hansen) and 2) Antje Jacobse van Winkel widow of Jan Stynmets. (NYC marr. 17 Dec. 1710)
April 1684; Andries Albertsen Bratt there is a Indian deed (not executed) for land outside Schenectady from Apparently he and some others were not allowed to purchase land for 3 miles outside of Schenectady, the land supposed to be for common pastures. (Early records..)
1 Dec. 1684 Andries Albertsen Bratt: Deed to Johannis Wendell for ½ of sawmill, creek and 2 morgen land outside Rensselaerwyck (NEHGS) This is the last recording until baptismal record in 1694 for Andries Albertsen Bratt. He does not appear as a lucky or successful man.
Cynthia Biasca Brott: Descendants of Albert Andriesse Bratt and Arent Andriesse Bratt:
“ Christoph points out that Andries rented al large pail in 1666 indicated that he buried a wife. He had a wife named Neeltje on the church list in 1683 but was not yet married to Cornelia van Wie. Therefore, this indicates that Cornelia was the 3rd wife of Andries, all his known children are from this marriage…”
The Dutch Reformed Church of Albany membership list from the end of 1683 shows this:
“Andries de Sweed (aka Andries Alberts Brat)” and the next “Neeltje Andres (dau. Of Teunis Sway)” (Annals of Albany v. 1 et al.)
These brackets’ are speculative notes added by transcriber Rev. E.P. Rogers in 1858, from the handwritten records of Godefridus Dellius pastor 1683-1699. Mr. Rogers inserts numerous notes in his transcription.
A 1904 edition of church membership records publ. in the yearbook of the Holland Society says only “Andries de Sweed” and “Neelje Andries”
According to recording customs of that time, Neeltje “Andries” was the wife of Andries. Neeltje is a variation for Cornelia, the notes pertain to Cornelia Teunis Verwey who is not recorded as “Cornelia van Wie”
(Example: “Cornelia” is bapt. 30 Jun. 1678 in Flatbush daughter of Cornelis Verwey and Hendrickje Jansen Buys. “Neeltje” Verwey marr. 26 Nov. 1698 John Stagg. (Genealogical listings of Hudson and Bergen County by C.B. Harvey.)
There is no family name like “Sway” or similar. The closest would be “Swart” for Teunis Cornelis Swart who had a daughter Neeltje who married Willem Abrahamse Tietsoort ab. 1673 she died ab. 1700 (numerous sources) Clearly Mr. Rogers means not “Sway” but “Verwey”.
Who was “Andries de Sweedt”?
At time of this writing I cannot confirm any original recording for “Andries de Sweedt”
There is an “Andries Andriessen” in 1655 van Westeroos in Sweden (New Amsterdam DRC) marr. Niesje Huyts, children to 1667 in NA) No evidence for recorded “de Sweedt”.
Most logical the membership entry pertains to Andries Hansen Scherp (Scharp, Schaap) and likely wife Neeltje Cornelis van der Hoeven. Marr. Ab. 1664.
Although Pearson writes “ Andries Hansen de Sweedt lived in Kinderhook in 1675” there is no original documentation for “de Sweedt”.
Writers J. Pearson, A>E> Collier and Evjen consistently confuse Andries Hansen Scherp.
with Andries Hanse Barheit or Andries Hansen Huygh ( update is printed in Annual report v. 99 by NYSL) also see my article “Andries Hansen Scherp “ on Scherp and Sharp message board.
“Andries Hasen Barheit” marr. Gerritje Teunis Metsalaer, they are both Albany church members 1683: “Andries Hansen and Gerritje Andries”.Children 1685 to ab. 1697/ No will, last rec. in 1699.
Gerritje is in her father’s will 7 Aug. 1685 (Teunis Teuniss Metselaer and Egbertje Egberts) wife of Andries Hansen (Early records of Albany v. 4)) Barheit lived in Coxsackie not Kinderhook.
“Andries Hansen Huygh” bought land in Kinderhook 1679 marr. Catrina Lamberts Valkenburgh, they have children from 1683 to 1700, he is recorded as Huygh/Huyck Huyk.
Andries Huyck and Johannes Huyck are household heads in
C 1697 of Albany. His will 23 August 1705 names wife Catherine, children Johannis,Lambert,Burger, Cate,Jochem,Cornelis,Anna, Andries, Maria and Margaret.
There is also Andries Jans Witbeek etc. (see Scherp article)
There is also an Andries Jansz aka Douwe and Engeltje Voelkerts children from 1686
(All from DRC records of Albany )
“Andries Hansen Scherp “ likely marr. Ab. 1664 1) Neeltje Cornelis van der Hoeven (not confirmed )All his children are married before 1704. It is possible that Neeltje died before 1695, it is possible Scherp marr. 2) Aeltje Jans by 1695, however it is also possible that Aeltje Jans was a relative filling in as female sponsor, namely sister to Dorothe Jans who was married to Neeljte’s brother Jan Cornelis van der Hoeven.
Andries Hansen Scherp is the only likely individual being referred to as “de Sweedt” and also having a wife “Neeltje”
Andries Sherp and Gysbert Scherp are household heads in C 1697 of Albany.
“Andries Scherp” is last rec. 1701 as bapt witness.
Andries Albertsen marr. 1693 or earlier Cornelia Teunis Verwey (van Wie?) of Verwen? there is no death date, will, administration of estate etc .After 1706 there is no further documentation for either one. The burial records of Albany begin in 1722-1754, no recorded Andries or Cornelia.
See my article “Children of Andries Albertsen Bratt” it is likely that Andries had other children born before 1694.
The list of Albany households in 1679 shows only Jan Albertsen Bratt.
The Census of Schenectady in 1697 shows Dirk Bratt and Samuel Bratt.
The census of Rensselaerwijck of 1697 shows no Bratt name.
The Oath of Allegiance of Albany 1699 shows Barent Bradt, Daniel Bratt, Anthony Bratt, Dirk Bratt, Johannes Bratt NO Andries Bratt (or Andries Albertsen)
There is no Bratt name in Kinderhook 1699.
It is not known where Andries Albertsen Bratt and wife Cornelia resided at these dates.
Cornelia Teunis Verwey died in or about 1706, possibly in childbirth.
There is no documentation about her father Teunis Verwey.
A Cornelis Verwey marr. Hendrickje Jans Buys bef. 1678, children rec. 1678-1688 (Neeltje, Antje, Dieuwer and Cornelis, children without baptisms are Jan (below) Vroutie, perhaps Elisabeth, Neeltje 1678. (below) He died by 1698 in Bergen, NJ. Always recorded as” Cornelis Verwey” -, Hendrikje was born 1654 and married 2) 1698 Reinier van Giessen
All children would have “Cornelisse” as patronymic” like
“Jan Cornelisse Verwey y.m from Long Island (and) Cathryn Louwrense Akkerman 15 Feb. 1702” (New Jersey marriages 1665-1808)
“Neeltje” not Cornelia Verwey (marr. 26 Nov. 1698 John Stagg, children Thomas,Mary, Isaac, Jacob to 1719” No further documentation on Cornelia from Genealogical listings of Hudson and Bergen county, C. Burnhan Harvey. She is dau. Of Cornelis Verwey and Hendrickje Jansen Buys born 30 Jun. 1678 in Flatbush
There is a recorded “Cornelis Cornelisz Verwey” engaging in a contract to work for Arent van Curler 29 Mar. 1657 in a notary in the Netherlands, also stating he was born in “de Vecht” and son of Cornelis Cornelisz Verwey “de ouder” (Beverwijck a Dutch village….) There is no documentation for his arrival in New Netherland
There is a “Teunis Gerrits Verwey (or van Wie)” rec. 21 Jan. 1666/7 buying a chest from an estate auction (Early records of the city and county…) Teunis Verway is a witness 8 Jul. 1669 and sued by Jan Wesseler 10 Jun. 1669 for slander and 8 Jul. 1669 he receives a court citation (all from Minutes of court of Rensselaer 1668-1675…) There is no documentation for a possible brother “Hendrick Gerrits Verwey/van Wie” who died in 1691.
“Cornelia Varnoy (Vernooy) marr. 1689 in Kingston David du Bois, children to 1703.
There is a Theunis Gerritsen Verwen from Buren on ship Roosenboom in 1663, the name Verwen or phonetic likeness does not re-appear.
There are several Verweys in Albany, none appears as sponsor to Cornelia; likely children of Hendrick Gerritse Verwey died 1691.clearly not related to Cornelia Teunisse Verwey.
Andries Albertsen Bratt did not marry Weyntie Roosa in 1608:
The below 1708 marr. clearly states “jongeman” meaning bachelor , likely of Andries “Jansen “Bratt born 10 Jan. 1686 and Jan Albertsz Bratt; Andries (twin yp Pieter); sp .Antoni Bratt, Annetje Bratt, Antje Cross” (DRC Albany)
“1708 18 Sep; Andries Brat, ym, b. in A. Co.; Weintje Rosa, yd, b&l in Ulster Co” (DRC Albany)
She is Wyntje Jansen Roose 1 Nov. 1684 (DRC Kingston) of Jan Alderste Roose and Hillegond WIllemse van Boerum.
Andries and Weyntie have children to 1725 which by the way would make Andries Albertsen about
83 years old. First son is “Jan” 1709 in Kingston, Ulster County.
”Yntie wife of Andries Bratt is buried 24 Dec. 1742” (Albany burials)
“Andries Bratt” is rec. 1714 selling land “that heretofore belonged to his gr. Grandfather Andries de Voss.” (NEHGS) Making him descendant of Arent Andriessen Bratt and Catalyntje Andries de Vos.
This Andries ab. 1688 was son of Dirk Barents Bratt marr. Maria van Epps, will 1727 pr. 1757 .
There is no further documentation for Andries and Cornelia Bratt. The timeline remains disturbing , if Andries was born 1638-1640 he would be 68-66 years old at birth of child in 1706, which is unlikely or at least shows no comparable data for such a high age (the closest I found was last of 18 children for Aaron Jacobse van Nostrand at age 61 from 3d wife)
I consider the possibility that the dates for Andries pertain to a missing generation.
Considering that Andries Albertsen is last recorded in 1684 and next in 1694, considering that he had a first wife dying (likely in childbirth) in 1666, another Andries born 1665/6 would make perfect sense for children born to 1706.
Even if Andries was born 1644 he still would be about 28 years older than Cornelia (born ab. 1665 or later) This is all very questionable. It should be possible to locate the primary church document to confirm that the 1694 entry really says “Andries Alberts Bratt” and not “Andries Bratt”
Andries Albertsen Bratt has no baptismal date.
Andries Albertsen first recorded in 1662 as minor (not yet 25 years old and /or not married)
Andries Alberts recorded in court 1662 (either 25 years old or married)
He was likely 3rd son of Albert born ab. 1638-1640, married 1) ab. 1665 Unknown who died in 1666.
Andries Albertsen (Bratt) is not recorded as “de Sweedt”
Andries Albertsen (Bratt) did not live in Kinderhook
Andries Albertsen (Bratt) did not marry 2) Neeltje Unknown by 1683
Neeltje was not named “Sway” she was recorded “Neeltje Andries” wife of “Andries de Sweedt” rec. as church members end of 1683
Andries de Sweedt is likely aka Andries Hansen Scherp living in Kinderhook, last rec. in 1701 and Neeltje is possible Neeltje Cornelis van der Hoeven
Andries Albertsen (Bratt) marr. Before 1694 Cornelia Teunisse Verwey.
Cornelia Verwey is rec. as Cornelia Teunis Verwey, not as van Wie. She is logically born ab. 1665 or later.
There is no documentation for her Verwey (Van Wie) ancestry. Teunis Gerrits Verwey is rec. in 1666 and 1669.
Andries Albertsen Bratt and Cornelia Verwey bapt. Annetje in Albany 1694.
The following baptisms only say “Andries Bratt”
Baptismal of last child “Barent “ in 1606 is last documentation
Bapt. Sponsor in 1733 and 1735 “Andries Brat” is unlikely Andries Albertsen being ab. 86 years old.
Andries Albertsen (Bratt) did not marry 3) or otherwise Weyntje Roosa in 1708.
No records in New York or New Jersey, no will, no administration papers, no re-marriage of Cornelia or other documentation.
Andries Hansen Scherp by B. Boram Nov. 2012
Annual report v. 99 by New York State Library
Beveryjck a Dutch village on the American Frontier 1652-1664 by J. Venema
Calendar of wills Bergen county, New Jersey
Collections on the history of Albany by Joel Munsel
Colonial laws of New York from the year 1664 to the Revolution by NYD)
Commentaries on the Roman Dutch Law by Simon van Leuuwen
Descendants of Albert Andriesse Bratt and Arent Andriesse Bratt
by Cynthia Biasca Brott,excerpts
Dutch Reformed Church of Kingston, Ulster County
Dutch Reformed Church records of Albany
Early records of Albany v. 4
Early records of the city and county of Albany 1678-1704 by Albany county
Early records of the city and county of Albany, by Prof. J. Pearson
Genealogical listings of Hudson and Bergen cou nty, C. Burnhan Harvey
Genealogical listings of Hudson and Bergen County by C. Burhan Harvey.
Genealogies of Long Island
History of Kinderhook by Edward A. Collier
Manual of the corporations of the city of New York by Valentine
Minutes of the court of Albany, Rensselaerwyck and Schenectady 1668-1675 and 1675-1680- by A.J.F. van Laer
New England Historic Genealogical Society
New York State Historical literature abstract of wills
Rootsweb archives article by Peter R. Christoph 2003
Ships’ passenger list Olive Tree genealogy
The American Genalogist v. 24
Yearbook of the Holland Society 1905