Jan, thank you but still doesn't answer my questions. I'm trying to figure who the father is. My second question is if the Helena that had a child with van waes is the same Helena. Both Johannes and van waes child are around the same age. I am believing either van waes is the father, but no concrete evidence to support my assumption. Then my next question will be is Helena maiden name. I am also assuming that on Johannes birth record that bussema is her married name. These are just hypothetical assumptions but I would like to rule them out. I know Helena is mother, father is my question. I'm hoping their is some paper somewhere that can answer that question, just seemed to have avoided me; maybe it's my lack of reading Dutch!