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Please can someone Help with finding family

Replies: 40

Re: Please can someone Help with finding family

Posted: 1350500374000
Classification: Query
Hey again....

I have NO IDEA how or why it was deleted/not posted....and sure would like an explanation....maybe it was a technical glitch; all it was was a long post explaining that I found these articles, the paper's name (Tucson Daily Citizen), the article dates, a suggestion and link to try to get his CA divorce papers from Loretta, etc. Didn't realize til now [Thanks Leona!] that they had deliberately deleted my 2nd post to you telling you that my 1st post had vanished!

Yeah, I spent a few hours here going through the papers, taking notes, cross-checking other sites, etc. all to have it vanish. :-( Yes, it is frustrating as this ancestry research is work and gobbles up time. [But it's fun too!]


What initially threw me off was your mention of 'Tuscany' AZ - it dawned on me that you maybe meant 'Tuscon' as there seems to be no 'Tuscany', AZ. So, that's when I started looking through the Tucson papers...and there it was.

So now you know more of what happened, when, and that as soon as he was released [Oct 1947], they apparently headed right to San Diego. Bummer about the negative info.

I looked for more articles to see if they succeeded in getting him extradited back to Tucson to finish out his sentence but couldn't find any. Also looked for articles to see if I could find out about Mrs Templeman's Nov trial or her release from jail. Nope. I wonder who she was - tried to find more on her [elsewhere] but couldn't.

These articles also explain that because of this conviction he lost his military benefits & senority [15 years worth], etc. Yeah - when dishonorably discharged, I believe they do lose everything.

So maybe they did head right to CA, and maybe that's when he decided to sign up for SS - I suspect that that SS# tied to a William R Smith, born July 8 1912 [died June 19, 1991] that was issued in CA belongs to him, but of course we don't know that for sure. This might also explain why you saw no SS# in his military papers - he didn't bother to get one until after he was discharged and lost all military benefits.

So, now my question to you would be this - did you get military discharge papers as part of the paperwork you got from the military? Hmmm?? I presume not. Your mother, I believe, has a legal right to obtain them too if she hasn't already. Search that out on the web about obtaining his discharge papers if you're interested.

I have [honorable] discharge papers on some of my relatives and they are usually full of info. Dishonorable discharge papers probably are too, and might have even more detail - especially about the conviction.

On one of my relatives discharge/separation papers it mentions years of service, what skills they learned in civilian life and military service, where all they were stationed, last high school attended/grade completed and what year, academic studies in school if any, where they were working before joining, permanent address, military specialties, claim for unused leave, battles and campaigns, decorations and citations, etc., etc.

These discharge papers can help you "paint" a picture of his years in the service, and where he was and when. They can help you to construct a timeline of his life for those 15 years.

This conviction and discharge also now explains why there would be no military record of his death, burial, etc. - he wasn't entitled to it because of the "less than honorable discharge".

Why he stated on that marriage record to 'Norma'/Loretta that he was born in Texas I don't know... According to those 1947 articles, he had 15 years of service; 1947-15=1932...did he enlist in 1932 [in Columbus]? He married Loretta in Jan 1932 in Columbus; he states his occupation as carpenter. Maybe he had been in TX working and just had TX on his mind...maybe he fibbed because he was marrying Loretta [who was really underage at the time and using another name] under false pretenses.

[Remember, I found that 1960 TX death cert for who I believe was his older sister, Emma Catherine Smith, so they may have had some TX connections - who knows?]

BTW, as I'm typing this post, I have other windows open and am searching...and just found a PDF document of Ross County births from 1798 - present, and speaking of Emma, I found her birth info: born Emma Cathryn HALL on June 19, 1904 in Ross County, OH [this birthday lines up with that TX death cert I found], father listed as "UNKNOWN" and mother as Samantha Hall, case #25130.

In my Aug 29 post to you here, I brought up Katherine and was wondering who her mother was - now I know it was Samantha Hall; and I'd mentioned that Samantha must have had her at age 16 and out-of-wedlock. Evidently so. So, no telling who Emma Katherine's biological father really was, but she ended up using the name Smith.

Samantha/Mattie Hall marries Samuel Tuneyhill 1st on June 16, 1906 in Ross at age 18, and little Emma Katherine/Cathryn Hall was 3 days shy of turning 2 years old then. Then she turns around and marries Wm H Smith in Feb 1908, so Wm H Smith was probably all she knew for a father.

If you're still interested in trying to get a copy of WRS's OH birth certificate, I would go with the birth date of July 8 1912 and parents William Henry Smith and Samantha Jane "Mattie" HALL. He could have been born in TX would be a bummer to pay for a OH cert to find out there isn't one. They did end up in Nebraska for some reason as that's where Odessa was born in 1911, remember? Maybe they went from NE to TX and were in TX in July 1912 for some reason & WRS was born there...then they went back to OH. But I have a feeling he was born in OH.

Samantha Hall's parents were Joseph Hall and Catherine Matheny. I finally found Samantha J in the 1900 Census for Union Twp, Ross County. They're listed under the last name "Halt" instead of Hall - it lists Catherine, born Nov 1844, and Samantha J [spelled 'Simantha'] and her brother Ernest. [don't know where Joe is] There was a sister Ella Hall, born March 26, 1883 in Vinton County, OH, but she doesn't appear on that 1900 Census - maybe died young. Ernest Cleveland Hall was born in Vinton County also on Nov 28, 1885 - died Nov 26, 1938 in Columbus.

While typing this and searching too, I stumbled upon a death cert for a Roy Phillip Smith, born Dec 2, 1913 - died Feb 7, 1914 [of meningitis/measles] in South Solon, Madison County, OH. What caught my eye was that his parents were listed as Wm H Smith and Samantha Hall, both from Ross County, OH. Hmm...did they have another kid? Were they in Madison County in 1913-14 (which is the county due west of Franklin County)?? May be....

OMG! Guess what I just found?? William Henry Smith's death certificate! :-0 YES! I just found your great grandfather's death cert: Wm H Smith, born June 16, 1868 in Ross County, OH - died Nov 11, 1947 @ 11:45 pm of liver cancer; occupation - retired carpenter; parents: Felix Smith and Phoebe Bridebaugh. (should be "Bridenbaugh") He died in Kinnikinnick/Green Twp, Ross, OH. It says he's widowed too, so I wonder if when him and Samantha split up (and she married his brother Felix) he must have remarried again. He's buried in Springbank Cemetery too, and his daughter Odessa VanHooser signed as informant. That's him alright! ;-)

Now that I found this, I went backwards in time - I found him in the 1940 Census and he's living with Odessa Van Hooser and her husband and kids in Kinnikinnick/Green Twp, Ross, OH on Route 180. On the 1940 Census's they were asking people where they were living in 1935 - Wm lists Columbus. He's listed as divorced here in 1940.

Now I'm trying to find Wm H Smith in the 1930 Census...we know he's split with Samantha/Mattie before 1930 as she was married to his brother Felix on Oct 4, 1924 in Ross County.

Well, maybe I found him...married to a new woman - "Nannie", living in Columbus, District 11 on Jackson St. He's the right age, and states his 1st marriage was around age 30 - yeah, that's about right. So MAYBE that's him? Not quite sure yet...

Thing is, where is your grandfather WRS at in 1930 Census's? I haven't found him yet...closest thing I found was an 18 year old Richard Smith boarding with some folks in Columbus...

Well, more later - now you know your great grandfather's death cert IS online at FamilySearch and when he died. [He died in 1947 right after WRS had all that trouble in Tucson]

Hang in there - it is coming together!

SubjectAuthorDate Posted
pomaus_nch 1350405656000 
pomaus_nch 1350410248000 
Leona L Gusta... 1350410741000 
Leona L Gusta... 1350415359000 
Kat747 1350500374000 
pomaus_nch 1350505712000 
pomaus_nch 1350511428000 
Kat747 1350572545000 
pomaus_nch 1350578204000 
Kat747 1350640743000 
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