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old st marcus in st. louis

Replies: 8

Re: Winner/Wenner family in St. Louis

Posted: 1368545361000
Classification: Query
Dear Kathy,

Sure, you can have my email, cousin! You can reach me at or

I didn't realize your grandmother Della was the sister of Lillian and Eleanore. I remember Lillian and Eleanore referring to Bob as their nephew, but then I found a census record with Adela living with all the other "A" children, so I thought they were siblings and that Lillian and Eleanore were just calling Bob their nephew.

The house you're talking about, where they lived, was on Highland Avenue. My mother always thought that my grandfather Albert Winner (Lizzie's son) helped buy it for them. They used to stay with Lizzie and Albert for long periods of time at Lizzie's house on Holly Avenue. She had that house built after her husband, Hermann, died in 1901. Hermann was a wealthy businessman, about 35 years older than Lizzie, and he had a Teamsters business and general merchancise store on Blair and Madison. That's where my Grandpa Winner was born. When Hermann died, Lizzie wanted to move to a better neighborhood, for Grandpa's sake, so she had the house on Holly built. She lived there until she died on June 6, 1941. Then Grandpa and my Grandpa moved there and lived there for a number of years.

Like her husband, Lizzie's father was a teamster, and they lived in the same neighborhood. The Manneckes and Hermann were from the Hannover area of Germany. Before he left Germany, Hermann changed his last name to Winner from von Dreele; we don't know why. He left in 1847, and there was a lot of political upheaval in Europe around then.

We lived on Claudine Drive in Spanish Lake beginning in 1959. Lillian and Eleanore must have moved there about 1960 or 1961. They lived in Fontaine Estates, just off Bellefontaine Road. Their house is the second on the right as you turn into the subdivision.

I heard of the rift between the Hellmichs and the dropping of the "l" but I don't know why; I'm not sure my family knew either. But I know of the other feud -- Alvin was a teacher, and when he was about 40 he wanted to marry a French teacher. That is Aldred's mother. Alice became furious, said she and Alvin had made a pact never to marry and to instead take care of their parents, but Alvin got married anyway. Lizzie and Grandpa were the only family members to attend the wedding; Lillian and Eleanore were across the street, hiding behind bushes, watching what was going on! Years ago, my Mother called Aldred and explained their relationship, and Aldred said she had never heard of any other Hellmichs! After that she and Mom talked some more and she sent Mom Christmas letters every years.

Another Alice story -- she had a dog she was crazy about, and when it got sick, she pushed it around in a baby stroller. When it died, she had him laid out in her parlor. Supposedly she said to my grandfather, "Are you going to see the dog, Albert?" He said, "No."

Well, a bit about me. I've lived in the Houston area since January 1984. I worked at the St. Louis Globe-Democrat, and when it was folding, I took a newspaper job down here. I'm a technical writer now.

I have two brothers -- Brad and Lance Hildebrand, both still in St. Louis. Perhaps you've heard them on the radio. Brad used to be on the original KSLQ and now owns its reincarnation in Washington, Mo. Lance is the traffic reporter for KY98. Brad is the only one with kids -- three boys and a girl, Amanda, who is in law school at St. Louis U.

I'm eager to hear more from you on email!

Holly Hildebrand
SubjectAuthorDate Posted
holly 1163192428000 
Charlie 1163205164000 
Holly 1163433644000 
Bob Buecher 1164166399000 
Holly Hildebrand 1164210482000 
chapell6 1368453601000 
VictorHugo2 1368461321000 
chapell6 1368538416000 
VictorHugo2 1368545361000 
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