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Replies: 27


Clete Ramsey (View posts)
Posted: 1134362058000
Classification: Query
Surnames: Ramsey, Haden, Chesnut, Huggins, Glenn, McCaslen, Stevens, Haise, Wright, Owens, Virgin, Miller, Thompson, Dockkins, Shanks, Bailey, O'Guinn

For years, I've been trying without much success to sort out the various Ramsey lines in southeast Missouri. As you no doubt have found, it's a tangle, with many mystery Ramseys I can't connect. However, I'm certain Samuel Ramsey (b. 1777, VA) had no immediate connection to the John Ramsey and Elizabeth "Patsy" (Haden) Ramsey you note.

From what I've learned, Samuel Ramsey was the son of Capt. William Ramsey and Margaret (Chesnut) Ramsey. He was born in Augusta County, Virginia, then a much larger county than it is now. By 1797, the family was in Lincoln County, North Carolina, where Samuel married Rebecca Huggins in November of that year. They had at least nine children. In 1818, they followed many of their Lincoln County neighbors to southeast Missouri. A tenth known child, son Alfred, was born to Samuel and Rebecca Ramsey in 1819, in what was then Missouri Territory.

Samuel's father William wrote his will in 1804. The will wasn't admitted to the Lincoln County court until 1828. By that time, Samuel had been dead for about six years (he died about 1822).

The will makes no mention of William's wife Margaret, so it appears she died before 1804.

The will does mention William's sons Robert, Solomon, David, and Samuel, as well as daughter "Janey Glen."

William Ramsey's children Robert, Solomon, and Jane (the Janey Glen noted in William's will) are reported to have married siblings from the Lincoln County Glenn family (Margaret, Agnes, and Robert B. Glenn, Jr., respectively).

The junior Robert B. Glenn and Jane (Ramsey) Glenn, as well as Solomon Ramsey and Agnes (Glenn) Ramsey, are reported to have moved with Robert B. Glenn, Sr., from Lincoln County, North Carolina, to White County, Tennessee.

According to one Ramsey researcher with whom I've been corresponding, Solomon Ramsey later moved from White County to Marshall County, Tennessee.

That same researcher reports that Samuel's brother David (b. 1770, VA) married Jane McCaslen in Lincoln County before moving with the Glenn family to Tennessee. She said David and Jane Ramsey later moved to Overton County, Tennessee.

Robert Ramsey remained in Lincoln County, North Carolina, and some of his descendants are still there.

I've often considered the possibility that descendants of William Ramsey's sons and daughter who moved from North Carolina to Tennessee might have have later moved to southeast Missouri. So far, I haven't been able to connect any Tennessee-born Ramseys on 19th-century Cape Girardeau or Bollinger census reports to Samuel Ramsey's brothers and sister who moved from North Carolina to Tennessee with the Glenn family.

As I noted above, Samuel Ramsey died about 1822. This is the abstract of Samuel Ramsey's will as it appears in Cape Girardeau County records:

"1336 Ramsey, Samuel – 31 Dec 1822 – John Stevens, Adm. Widow, Rebecca & 8 sons & 2 daughters (not named) Box 70"

Samuel's widow Rebecca was still living as late as 1850. In that year, she shows up in the Cape Girardeau County household of her Missouri-born son Alfred:

Dwelling 1546

RAMSEY Alfred 33 M MO
RAMSEY Emeline 26 F TN
RAMSEY William 2 M MO
RAMSEY Charles F. 6/12 M MO
RAMSEY Rebecca 68 F VA

Emeline was Alfred's second wife. Her maiden name is reported to have been Haise.

The widow Rebecca was gone by 1860. In that year's census, this was her son Alfred's household in Cape Girardeau County:

Dwelling 1141

RAMSEY Alfred 40 M MO
RAMSEY Emmaline 25 F TN
RAMSEY Angeline 18 F MO
RAMSEY Franklin 12 M MO
RAMSEY Elizabeth 9 F MO
RAMSEY Albert 2 M MO [Albert "Stoke" Ramsey]

Albert "Stoke" Ramsey, who I believe was named in part after his North Carolina-born uncle Albert, head of a relatively nearby household in Cape Girardeau County in 1860, would later marry Martha Elizabeth Wright, whose family had come to southeast Missouri from Tennessee.

One of Stoke and Martha Ramsey's sons was Clarence Paul Ramsey. He married Stella Jane Owens, a daughter of John Madison Owens and Missouri Belle (Virgin) Owens.

Paul and Stella Ramsey had four children -- three sons and a daughter. Their first-born was my late father, Cletis T. Ramsey, who was born in Greenbrier, Bollinger County, Missouri, in 1912.

The 10 children I have for Samuel and Rebecca Ramsey are: son Vorde (b. 1798, NC); daughter Sarah (b. 1799, NC); son James (b. 1800, NC); son William (b. 1802, NC); son Thomas (b. 1804, NC); daughter Mary (b. 1806, NC); son David (b. 1810, NC); son John (b. between 1812 and 1814, NC); son Albert (b. 1816, NC); and, my great-great grandfather Alfred (b. 1819, MO).

Your posting, while leaving the number at 10 (eight sons and two daughters), appears to drop son Vorde, about whom I know little more than his name and year of birth. You also add a twin brother (Preston) for Thomas, and change Thomas' year of birth from 1804 to 1805.

Of Samuel and Rebecca Ramsey's children who married, I know the names of some of their spouses and the names of only about half of their reported over three dozen children.

One of my mystery Ramsey men had been the John Ramsey who was reported in Cape Girardeau County Marriage Book B (1839-1854) to have married Sarah Miller on 15 November 1842.

In 1850, a Sarah Ann Ramsey, 24, was living in the Cape Girardeau County household of John C. Miller, 23. My guess had been that she was a widowed Sarah Ann (Miller) Ramsey living with her younger brother. Both Sarah Ramsey and John Miller were listed as Tennessee-born. The household also had a Missouri-born John A. Ramsey, 6. Your posting confirms that Sarah Ann Miller was John Ramsey's widow and John A. Ramsey their son.

In 1860, there was a Missouri-born John A. Ramsey, 16, living in the Cape Girardeau County household of John S. Thompson, 42. The household also included Sarah Ann Thompson, 35, b. TN; May F. Thompson, 4; James H. Thompson, 3; and, Martha C. Thompson, 1. I thought it was possible that Sarah Ann Thompson was the widow Sarah Ann (Miller) Ramsey, who had married again. Your posting confirms that guess.

John Ramsey, who Cape Girardeau County Marriage Book C (1855-1868) reported as marrying Mary C. Thompson on 4 April 1867, was also one of my mystery Ramsey men. Your posting confirms he was John Andrew Ramsey, MO), a son of John Ramsey and Sarah Ann (Miller) Ramsey.

Another Ramsey man on my mystery list is Preston Ramsey (b. ~1805, TN), who was head of a household in 1850 Cape Girardeau County that included: Elizabeth Ramsey, 29, b. TN; Sarah J. Ramsey, 13, b. TN; James A. Ramsey, 10, b. AR; William J. Ramsey, 8, b. AR; and, John N. Ramsey, 2, b. AR. In 1850, Preston Ramsey's household was very near that of my great-great grandfather Alfred. Your posting includes a son Preston for Samuel and Rebecca Ramsey. This Preston Ramsey might have been him. However, his Tennessee place of birth, if correct, conflicts with the North Carolina places of birth I've seen for all of Samuel and Rebecca's children but one, my Missouri-born great-great grandfather Alfred.

In addition to my great-great grandfather Alfred's household, another Ramsey-connected household near Preston Ramsey's in 1850 was that headed by John K. Dockkins, whose wife was the former Eliza J. Shanks. Also living in John Dockkins' household was his sister-in-law, Catherine (Shanks) Ramsey (1821-1896). Like her sister Eliza, Catherine was a daughter of Solomon Shanks Sr. and Rachel (Davis) Shanks.

Catherine (Shanks) Ramsey's late husband was John Ramsey (1821-1848), another of my Ramsey mystery men. John and Catherine Ramsey had sons Benjamin C. Ramsey (1844-1926) and John Henry Ramsey (1845-1930). John Henry Ramsey's son, Benjamin Harrison "Bud" Ramsey, and Bud's wife, Emma (Bailey) Ramsey, are buried smack dab in front of my grandparents, Paul and Stella Ramsey, at Baker Cemetery south of Marble Hill, Bollinger County. While I'm convinced these Ramseys were likely connected to my Ramsey family, I just don't know how.

In 1860, the household of John and Sarah Stevens was listed on the census of Lorance Township, Bollinger County, immediately after that of John and Eliza Dockkins.

John Stevens, the adminstrator of Samuel Ramsey's will and the first Presiding Judge of Bollinger County after its creation in 1851, married North Carolina-born (~1803) Sarah Ramsey. I've seen speculation that Sarah (Ramsey) Stevens was a daughter of Samuel and Rebecca Ramsey, but I think that's not correct. Another source identifies John Steven's wife Sarah as the daughter of David Ramsey, who came to southeast Missouri about the same time as John Stevens' family, about 1808. It's possible that David Ramsey was the Cape Girardeau County JP and Bollinger County commissioner, but not the David Ramsey who was Samuel and Rebecca Ramsey's son. Someone also informed me of an article about John Stevens in the 1888 Goodspeed's history of southeast Missouri that said his wife Sarah was the daughter of a John Ramsey from South Carolina.

Adding to the confusion, Frances Catherine "Fanny" Ramsey, a granddaughter of John Ramsey and Catherine (Shanks) Ramsey, married Oliver Edward Stevens, the grandson of John Stevens and Sarah (Ramsey) Stevens. Fanny Ramsey's parents were John Henry Ramsey and Martha "Patsy" (O'Guinn) Ramsey (1846-1882). Fanny's brother was the Benjamin Harrison "Bud" Ramsey buried next to my Ramsey grandparents at Baker Cemetery south of Marble Hill.

Benjamin C. Ramsey, John Henry Ramsey's brother, married four times. One of his wives was Mary Jane "Polly" O'Guinn (1844-1890), a sister of John Henry Ramsey's wife Patsy.

It gets even more confusing. A third O’Guinn sister, Malissa O’Guinn, appears to have married William Wright, the older, Tennessee-born brother of Martha Elizabeth (Wright) Ramsey, Stoke Ramsey’s wife and my great-grandmother.

If you want to be as confused as I am, I'll be glad to compare Ramsey notes and sources with you. Meanwhile, I'll go through your 10 December posting in detail and see what connections I can make.

Regards from Virginia,

SubjectAuthorDate Posted
Joseph Luther 1089934681000 
Merrie Morrison 1093139116000 
JosephLuther 1093181548000 
JosephLuther 1093231080000 
Clete Ramsey 1093226253000 
Mary Jeanne Riley Lentz 1134276851000 
Clete Ramsey 1134362058000 
Mary Jeanne Riley Lentz 1134462737000 
jwolffj 1298825795000 
maryrileylent... 1298855039000 
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