Talk:World Archives Project: USHMM - Poland, Lodz Ghetto Worker ID Cards, 1939-1944 (Part 2)

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== Extra Keying Helps==
== Extra Keying Helps==
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<br>
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In Germany a religious marriage is not recognised as legal. Even today if you want a religious marriage you have to get married in the Registry Office first, only then is the Rabbi, Priest ect entitled to perform the religoius marriage ceremony. This started in 1805 when Napoleon occupied Germany and seperated church and state.
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Therefore when Poland was occupied all of a sudden German law was applied and many jewish couples found that their marriage was not recognised and only a married woman's maiden name was seen to be legal. That is why you find confusion on some of the legal documents. Hence for children's surnames you very often find for example "Rozenthal oder Loewenstein". Rozenthal being the fathers name and Loewenstein being the mothers maiden name.
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Could someone give the German street names and equivalent Polish names to help in keying? Thank you. Patricia 3/17/14
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I have put two links on the main Wiki. --[[User:Elisabeth power|Elisabeth power]] 12:58, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
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== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
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<br>
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'''Street name:''' Please key the full name including the polish name in parenthesis.
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'''Gender:''' field left empty
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'''ID Card No (Identitätskarten Nr):''' key number and letter as seen. protokoll form 2 has an '''A''' at the end, protokoll form has an '''B''' at the end.
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'''Surname:''' Birthregister and Information sheet, very ofiten you encounter as surname for instance "Rosenthal oder Loewenstein". Do not key all. the wort oder means or, only key the first surname i. e. Rosenthal.
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--[[User:Elisabeth power|Elisabeth power]] 08:00, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
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'''Witnesses:'''on Protokoll forms keyers do not enter the witnesses surname, first names, age and street address.
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'''Date:''' on Protokoll forms. Please use the date at the bottom above the ID Card (Identitätskarten Nr).  If unsure please consult the wiki. There is a example which date to use.
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--[[User:Elisabeth power|Elisabeth power]] 16:08, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
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'''Names:''' Do '''not''' use '''-''' between two names. Example: Ruchla-Sura is wrong; key Ruchla Sura.
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'''Street Names;''' When it says 28 Strasse, do '''not''' key 28-Strasse and do '''not'''key the word No, just the number itself.
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I take all the - out, which will effect you accuracy rating.
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--[[User:Elisabeth power|Elisabeth power]] 07:53, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
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== Questions and Answers  ==
== Questions and Answers  ==
<span style="color:orange"> '''If you have a keying question that is not answered on the project page or in any of the information above, click “EDIT” and ask it here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made. '''<br>'''
<span style="color:orange"> '''If you have a keying question that is not answered on the project page or in any of the information above, click “EDIT” and ask it here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made. '''<br>'''
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Question 1: Project instructions are not very specific on keying address for the Protocol form. How do you want the addresses keyed on the protocol forms? It usually gives two street names, first one is German with the second one being the Polish street name in parentheses. For example, 26 Strasse (Masarska) 13. Do we key as seen and add the street name that is in parentheses? Also do you want the Nr keyed, and if so, with or without the Nr abbreviation? -Rebecca 25 Jan 2014
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'''Question 1:''' Project instructions are not very specific on keying address for the Protocol form. How do you want the addresses keyed on the protocol forms? It usually gives two street names, first one is German with the second one being the Polish street name in parentheses. For example, 26 Strasse (Masarska) 13. Do we key as seen and add the street name that is in parentheses? Also do you want the Nr keyed, and if so, with or without the Nr abbreviation? -Rebecca 25 Jan 2014
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Answer from WAP to Question 1:
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Answer: Street name: Per Anna: I believe you received this answer already but please key the street address as written on the record, including the Polish name in parenthesis. Rebecca 3 Aug 2014
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You should key the address based off the German (unless the German is illegible or not listed, in which case you can use the Polish address).
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Question 2: Protocol form: Do we also enter the protocol number for witnesses? -Rebecca 25 Jan 2014
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Question 1 I am keying the street address in its entirety. German street name, the name in parentheses and the house number and flat number (Wohnung) like 43/5
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'''Question 2:''' Protocol form: Do we also enter the protocol number for witnesses? -Rebecca 25 Jan 2014
Answer from WAP to Question 2:
Answer from WAP to Question 2:
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Question 3: Protocol form: The card number is usually followed by a slash and a letter (I believe most of them have been a B?. Hopefully I am reading that letter correctly!) Do we key this slash and letter with the card number For example 12345/B? -Rebecca 25 Jan 2014.  
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'''Question 3:''' Protocol form: The card number is usually followed by a slash and a letter (I believe most of them have been a B?. Hopefully I am reading that letter correctly!) Do we key this slash and letter with the card number For example 12345/B? -Rebecca 25 Jan 2014.  
I read that as a B too. --[[User:Elisabeth power|Elisabeth power]] 06:40, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
I read that as a B too. --[[User:Elisabeth power|Elisabeth power]] 06:40, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
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Question 4: In the previous Lodz project, gender was keyed Männlich for male and Weiblich for female. These project instructions are a little ambiguous. It says gender is Mannes or Männlichen for male and Frau or Weiblichen is for female. What exactly does WAP want keyed in the gender field for this project. -Rebecca 27 Jan 2014
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'''Question 4:''' In the previous Lodz project, gender was keyed Männlich for male and Weiblich for female. These project instructions are a little ambiguous. It says gender is Mannes or Männlichen for male and Frau or Weiblichen is for female. What exactly does WAP want keyed in the gender field for this project. -Rebecca 27 Jan 2014
'''Answer to 4:'''
'''Answer to 4:'''
Obvously the person who inserted mannes/männlichen and weiblichen does not know German Grammar very well. It should be männlich or weiblich as in former projects. Männlichen or weiblichen is only written when another word follows like männlichen or weiblichen Geschlechts. Sorry I cannot answer your other questions.--[[User:Elisabeth power|Elisabeth power]] 06:36, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Obvously the person who inserted mannes/männlichen and weiblichen does not know German Grammar very well. It should be männlich or weiblich as in former projects. Männlichen or weiblichen is only written when another word follows like männlichen or weiblichen Geschlechts. Sorry I cannot answer your other questions.--[[User:Elisabeth power|Elisabeth power]] 06:36, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
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Answer from WAP to Question 4:
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'''Question 5:''' Protocol form: For document place, do you want us to key Litzmannstadt-Getto or just Litzmannstadt? The dropdown menu only has Litzmannstadt so that makes it  bit confusing and instructions say to key what is next to Getto. -Rebecca 27 Jan 2014
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Dear Rebecca,
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Thank you for contacting Ancestry World Archives Project support regarding keying records.
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You should key the gender as you see it listed on the record. A given record will usually list Mannes or Männlichen, and Frau or Weiblichen, but you key whichever the record states.
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Best regards,
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-
David
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-
Customer Solutions Associate
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-
Ancestry.com
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+
-
 
+
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Question 5: Protocol form: For document place, do you want us to key Litzmannstadt-Getto or just Litzmannstadt? The dropdown menu only has Litzmannstadt so that makes it  bit confusing and instructions say to key what is next to Getto. -Rebecca 27 Jan 2014
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Answer from WAP to Question 5:
Answer from WAP to Question 5:
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Question 6: Protocol form: The majority of protocol forms I have seen only give the first names of parents. Obviously we do not infer their last names, correct? -Rebecca 27 Jan 2014
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'''Question 6:''' Protocol form: The majority of protocol forms I have seen only give the first names of parents. Obviously we do not infer their last names, correct? -Rebecca 27 Jan 2014
Answer from WAP to Question 6:
Answer from WAP to Question 6:
Most of the records should list the parents' given and surnames on the records under the lines "Vater" and "Mutter".
Most of the records should list the parents' given and surnames on the records under the lines "Vater" and "Mutter".
 +
Maiden names take preference over married name according to the general keying standards. So if it says Maria Slowenska geborene Gläsner. I have keyed Gläsner, although she signed with her married name.
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I will be asking some additional questions because a couple questions really still have not been answered. Here is the email in its entirety.
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Question 6: I only key the parents names if it is stated. Sometimes it says "Eheleute" ...., then I used that as the surname. --[[User:Elisabeth power|Elisabeth power]] 15:33, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
-
Dear Rebecca,
+
-
Thank you for contacting Ancestry World Archives Project support regarding keying records.
+
I looked at the general keying standards and do not see where it says that maiden name takes preference over married name. I am not confused as to which name I should put and whether I can use the maiden name under the father's surname. Any help appreciated. Patricia 14 Feb 2014
-
Yes, the keying instructions for this database explain all of your questions. You should key the address based off the German (unless the German is illegible or not listed, in which case you can use the Polish address).
+
Extract from the General Keying Standards: '''"If there is not an Alias Surname field key only the maiden name in the Surname field and the married surname in the Spouse Surname field if present"'''.--[[User:Elisabeth power|Elisabeth power]] 08:50, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
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Yes, you should be keying the protocol number. Yes, include the slash and letter in the card number. Just key "Litzmannstadt" without the "Getto" word.
+
'''Question 7:''' Protocol form: Sometimes there are corrections noted in the upper left corner. Example: Correction of the address or the profession. Which clain is to be recorded - the original or the corrected? Thanks, Guido
-
Most of the records should list the parents' given and surnames on the records under the lines "Vater" and "Mutter".
+
'''Answer to Q 7:''' we have only keyed information recorded in the main body and ignored corrections made on the left had corner.
-
You can find all of these answers on the database-specific instructions:
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The images that I am presently keying look like the surnames of couples. I have been choosing Miscellaneous and putting each surname on a separate line. Is this correct? Patricia 28 March 2014
-
http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Project:_USHMM_-_Poland,_Lodz_Ghetto_Worker_ID_Cards,_1939-1944_(Part_2)#Father_Given_4
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I received and answer from WAP after I sent them a screen shot. This is what they said;
 +
Yes, you are using the correct form of Miscellaneous when keying the names from the image with Vollmacht at the top of it.
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We do monitor our discussion pages.
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'''Question 8:''' Protocol form: Sometimes there is a stamp from the Aelteste der ... Abt: Standesamt on the sides of protocol forms. I believe it is a recording of a marriage (it says relig getraut) between the primary person listed on form and their spouse. Sometimes the spouse is a witness so they are already keyed, but sometimes the spouse is not a witness. Do we key the name of the spouse listed on that stamp if they are not already listed as a witness? Rebecca 27 Jul 2014
-
If you need additional assistance, please feel free to reply to this message.
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I have been keying in the spouse named in the religious wedding both if it is stamped at the side and if it is written near the bottom, unless the spouse is already listed as a witness. I would like to know what others are doing. This seems to me to be important information. Patricia 30 July 2014
-
Best regards,
+
I have been keying the spouse as well. I have also asked this question on the message board with a screenshot of an example. It hasn't been answered yet. Rebecca 1 Aug 2014
-
David
+
-
Customer Solutions Associate
+
-
Ancestry.com
+
==Suggestions/Additions==
==Suggestions/Additions==
<span style="color:orange"> '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''</span>'''<br><br>'''
<span style="color:orange"> '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''</span>'''<br><br>'''

Revision as of 02:27, 4 August 2014

Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the General Keying Standards and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)

Contents

Extra Keying Helps


In Germany a religious marriage is not recognised as legal. Even today if you want a religious marriage you have to get married in the Registry Office first, only then is the Rabbi, Priest ect entitled to perform the religoius marriage ceremony. This started in 1805 when Napoleon occupied Germany and seperated church and state. Therefore when Poland was occupied all of a sudden German law was applied and many jewish couples found that their marriage was not recognised and only a married woman's maiden name was seen to be legal. That is why you find confusion on some of the legal documents. Hence for children's surnames you very often find for example "Rozenthal oder Loewenstein". Rozenthal being the fathers name and Loewenstein being the mothers maiden name.

Could someone give the German street names and equivalent Polish names to help in keying? Thank you. Patricia 3/17/14

I have put two links on the main Wiki. --Elisabeth power 12:58, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers


Street name: Please key the full name including the polish name in parenthesis.

Gender: field left empty

ID Card No (Identitätskarten Nr): key number and letter as seen. protokoll form 2 has an A at the end, protokoll form has an B at the end.

Surname: Birthregister and Information sheet, very ofiten you encounter as surname for instance "Rosenthal oder Loewenstein". Do not key all. the wort oder means or, only key the first surname i. e. Rosenthal.

--Elisabeth power 08:00, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Witnesses:on Protokoll forms keyers do not enter the witnesses surname, first names, age and street address.

Date: on Protokoll forms. Please use the date at the bottom above the ID Card (Identitätskarten Nr). If unsure please consult the wiki. There is a example which date to use. --Elisabeth power 16:08, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Names: Do not use - between two names. Example: Ruchla-Sura is wrong; key Ruchla Sura. Street Names; When it says 28 Strasse, do not key 28-Strasse and do notkey the word No, just the number itself. I take all the - out, which will effect you accuracy rating. --Elisabeth power 07:53, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Questions and Answers

If you have a keying question that is not answered on the project page or in any of the information above, click “EDIT” and ask it here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.

Question 1: Project instructions are not very specific on keying address for the Protocol form. How do you want the addresses keyed on the protocol forms? It usually gives two street names, first one is German with the second one being the Polish street name in parentheses. For example, 26 Strasse (Masarska) 13. Do we key as seen and add the street name that is in parentheses? Also do you want the Nr keyed, and if so, with or without the Nr abbreviation? -Rebecca 25 Jan 2014

Answer: Street name: Per Anna: I believe you received this answer already but please key the street address as written on the record, including the Polish name in parenthesis. Rebecca 3 Aug 2014

Question 1 I am keying the street address in its entirety. German street name, the name in parentheses and the house number and flat number (Wohnung) like 43/5

Question 2: Protocol form: Do we also enter the protocol number for witnesses? -Rebecca 25 Jan 2014

Answer from WAP to Question 2: Yes, you should be keying the protocol number.


Question 3: Protocol form: The card number is usually followed by a slash and a letter (I believe most of them have been a B?. Hopefully I am reading that letter correctly!) Do we key this slash and letter with the card number For example 12345/B? -Rebecca 25 Jan 2014. I read that as a B too. --Elisabeth power 06:40, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Answer from WAP to Question 3: Yes, include the slash and letter in the card number.


Question 4: In the previous Lodz project, gender was keyed Männlich for male and Weiblich for female. These project instructions are a little ambiguous. It says gender is Mannes or Männlichen for male and Frau or Weiblichen is for female. What exactly does WAP want keyed in the gender field for this project. -Rebecca 27 Jan 2014

Answer to 4: Obvously the person who inserted mannes/männlichen and weiblichen does not know German Grammar very well. It should be männlich or weiblich as in former projects. Männlichen or weiblichen is only written when another word follows like männlichen or weiblichen Geschlechts. Sorry I cannot answer your other questions.--Elisabeth power 06:36, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Question 5: Protocol form: For document place, do you want us to key Litzmannstadt-Getto or just Litzmannstadt? The dropdown menu only has Litzmannstadt so that makes it bit confusing and instructions say to key what is next to Getto. -Rebecca 27 Jan 2014

Answer from WAP to Question 5: Just key "Litzmannstadt" without the "Getto" word.


Question 6: Protocol form: The majority of protocol forms I have seen only give the first names of parents. Obviously we do not infer their last names, correct? -Rebecca 27 Jan 2014

Answer from WAP to Question 6: Most of the records should list the parents' given and surnames on the records under the lines "Vater" and "Mutter".

Maiden names take preference over married name according to the general keying standards. So if it says Maria Slowenska geborene Gläsner. I have keyed Gläsner, although she signed with her married name.

Question 6: I only key the parents names if it is stated. Sometimes it says "Eheleute" ...., then I used that as the surname. --Elisabeth power 15:33, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

I looked at the general keying standards and do not see where it says that maiden name takes preference over married name. I am not confused as to which name I should put and whether I can use the maiden name under the father's surname. Any help appreciated. Patricia 14 Feb 2014

Extract from the General Keying Standards: "If there is not an Alias Surname field key only the maiden name in the Surname field and the married surname in the Spouse Surname field if present".--Elisabeth power 08:50, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Question 7: Protocol form: Sometimes there are corrections noted in the upper left corner. Example: Correction of the address or the profession. Which clain is to be recorded - the original or the corrected? Thanks, Guido

Answer to Q 7: we have only keyed information recorded in the main body and ignored corrections made on the left had corner.

The images that I am presently keying look like the surnames of couples. I have been choosing Miscellaneous and putting each surname on a separate line. Is this correct? Patricia 28 March 2014 I received and answer from WAP after I sent them a screen shot. This is what they said;

Yes, you are using the correct form of Miscellaneous when keying the names from the image with Vollmacht at the top of it.

Question 8: Protocol form: Sometimes there is a stamp from the Aelteste der ... Abt: Standesamt on the sides of protocol forms. I believe it is a recording of a marriage (it says relig getraut) between the primary person listed on form and their spouse. Sometimes the spouse is a witness so they are already keyed, but sometimes the spouse is not a witness. Do we key the name of the spouse listed on that stamp if they are not already listed as a witness? Rebecca 27 Jul 2014

I have been keying in the spouse named in the religious wedding both if it is stamped at the side and if it is written near the bottom, unless the spouse is already listed as a witness. I would like to know what others are doing. This seems to me to be important information. Patricia 30 July 2014

I have been keying the spouse as well. I have also asked this question on the message board with a screenshot of an example. It hasn't been answered yet. Rebecca 1 Aug 2014

Suggestions/Additions

If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.

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