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Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Mon, 04 Feb 2013 12:52:10 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Questions and Answers */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate. According to the new instructions the c date is keyed as a Marriage Certificate record.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==

Q: Barrington Congregational Church reverses maiden and married names? I have a couple sets of the membership list from that church and found this on the first page (set 2741826_46): [[Image:Barrington.jpg]]

I interpret the second sentence to say that the members are listed by the surname used when they joined the church. If a woman married later that name is included in parentheses. Here is an example: [[Image:Sarah Arnold Beane.jpg]]

That would be the reverse of how we usually see, and key, them. Do we just follow our usual keying guideline and hope those people will be found in a search?

:A: This was discussed on the message board with agreement on my interpretation. I Reviewed the sets I saw to make the name in parentheses the spouse's surname. This only affected a half-dozen or so image sets and they have probably all been processed now. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:53, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Q: I have seen many instances of the following, where no year is given for the birth. In every case the month/day is prior to the month/day of baptism. It seems obvious to me that the birth was in the same year as the baptism and it was just omitted to save typing. I have been keying and reviewing that way (e.g. 1888 for the birth year in this example) but I see most other people are keying the birth year [blank]. Is my assumption ok? [[Image:Birthyear.JPG]]

Q: continuing from the previous question in Birth-Baptism records, Most lines have borth and baptism dates labelled but some lines have only one date that is not labelled (as in the following) [[Image:Birthbaptismonedate.JPG]]

Some people are keying those single dates as Birth and some are keying as Baptism. I claim it's impossible to tell for sure which it is and I'm keying and reviewing to Other. Does that opinion seem correct?

Q: I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850. For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739. Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Q: Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city? Or how should they be keyed?

:A: We only key what is provided. If no city is named we leave the field blank. And "city" means city; not a country, state or "at sea". There is some chance that Governor's Wharf is/was a town but I doubt it, from the wording.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

:A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

:A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

:A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

I thought that was likely but this is where I get impatient with WAP sometimes. If Cornelius was one of my ancestors I would really like to find this information in a search. Without keying that extra record finding this would be very unlikely. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank? '''A:''' Without seeing the exact text I would urge caution. Most of those I have seen seem to list the towns the parents live in but do not explicitly list the marriage town. "preceeding the date" may be the same as "after a set of parents". --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

:A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Q1: I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

:A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Q2: The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

:A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Q3: One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

:A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Note:''' Discussion about the following image removed because the answer was simple. The image was left as an example illustrating the next question. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Q: Oh help! I have just come across one of these strange double-year dates - Feb 28 1693-4 for the marriage of Joseph Chase to Sarah Shearman - but I do not fully understand your discussion above. What date should I actually key? February 1694? Confused!

:A: I have removed that previous discussion just above because it was just my confusion. I now think it's clear that we key the earlier year when two years are given. So Feb 28 1693 in this example. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Q: I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 1719  and Apr 12 1718 since two of them are in the Quaker date formating?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:A: If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

Q: I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A: We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

Q: I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

Q: Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: "Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below)

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

Q: More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

Q: The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

Q: Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:A: According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?

:A:You would use the first date listed.

Q: If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?

:A: Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: On a page opposite what says "birth and death" there is an entry that states "GREENE William, son of Samual and Mehitable, both dec. of Johnston 3,6m, 1787". DOes this mean that William Green died on 3, 6m, 1787 and that Samuel and Mehitable are both deceased?

:A: Exactly, the parents predeceased William. Nothing extra to key. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Q:  On page 234 of the church records there are several entries that don't have a given name but state son or daughter.  Do we leave the given name blank or do we enter "son" or "daughter"?

:A: the keying instructions state to put things like "son" or "daughter of" in the prefix. Given Name would be left blank if no given name is provided. See it [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Prefix here]. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:53, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

'''--Per Anna, if shown as "son of" or "dau of" we would drop the 'of' and only key son or daughter. -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 14:41, 3 February 2013 (UTC)'''

Q. How should the following be keyed, similar to the above question?   I am seeing these in Dr. Ezra Style's Record on page 431 BISSELL  Job, son (daughter, child) of - This seems to be a child of Job Bissell, so the given should be Blank and enter Job as the father?

:A: Here is the image clip you speak of

[[Image:Bissell.JPG]]

As you suggest, this is a death at 6/12 years, prefix "son of", given name Blank, surname Bissell, father's name Job Bissell. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:53, 3 February 2013 (UTC) 

'''--Per Anna, if shown as "son of" or "dau of" we would drop the 'of' and only key son or daughter. -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 14:41, 3 February 2013 (UTC)'''

Q: Another example has 'BULIOD, Lewis, son of' with 2 more records saying 'BULIOD, Lewis, daughter of'.  Because of the 'Daughter of' records, it would seem that these type of records should be entered as Blank for Given and 'Lewis' as the Father's Given.

Q: BENTLEY William, wife (or widow) of - This seems to be a Wife of William Bentley, so given is blank, with Mrs as the Prefix, and William as the spouse?

:A: For your Buliod example I think you see the standards now. For the Bentley example, we are told to always key what we are given when possible. The words "wife of" are given so that would go in prefix  with a blank given name and William Bentley would be the spouse. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:53, 3 February 2013 (UTC) 

Q:  The parents are listed as John and Mary Doe. Do we key as John Doe and Mary Doe or John Doe and Mary (surname left blank)?

:A: Earlier posts have said to use the child's name as the wife's surname, unless something else is listed, so it should be entered as Doe.

Q. How are we to key names that mention the 'colored servant of', i.e. Duchess, colored servant of William?  Duchess is the Given Name, surname and Date are entered as given in entry, but 'William' is not the parent.  Should we key 'colored servant of William' in the 'prefix' field?

A: The phrase "colored servant..." would not be keyed (IMO). Along these lines I have debated with myself when encountering people ("colored servants") who used one name. I end up keying the way it is listed. If "Dutchess" is listed as a surname (in all caps in alphabetical order in the list) I key it in the surname field and leave the given name blank. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:52, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

== Surname vs surmised Maiden name ==

Q: How would the following death record be indexed: Greene, Mary, widow, daughter of Harvey and Lydia Brown... If the maiden name is supposed to be used instead of the married name, would I change her surname to Brown, and then put the spouse's surname as Greene? I have encountered many of these and just need to be clear. Sometimes there is a deceased spouse listed earlier, but without a clear statement that they were married. If it states: Greene, Mary, widow of Benjamin, daughter of Harvey and Lydia Brown,there is no question about proper indexing, it is just when there isn't all the information in the entry.

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 13:53:54 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Questions and Answers */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate. According to the new instructions the c date is keyed as a Marriage Certificate record.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q: '''Barrington Congregational Church reverses maiden and married names? I have a couple sets of the membership list from that church and found this on the first page (set 2741826_46): [[Image:Barrington.jpg]]

I interpret the second sentence to say that the members are listed by the surname used when they joined the church. If a woman married later that name is included in parentheses. Here is an example: [[Image:Sarah Arnold Beane.jpg]]

That would be the reverse of how we usually see, and key, them.

Do we just follow our usual keying guideline and hope those people will be found in a search? 

'''A: '''This was discussed on the message board with agreement on my interpretation. I Reviewed the sets I saw to make the name in parentheses the spouse's surname. This only affected a half-dozen or so image sets and they have probably all been processed now. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:53, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I have seen many instances of the following, where no year is given for the birth. In every case the month/day is prior to the month/day of baptism. It seems obvious to me that the birth was in the same year as the baptism and it was just omitted to save typing. I have been keying and reviewing that way (e.g. 1888 for the birth year in this example) but I see most other people are keying the birth year [blank]. Is my assumption ok? [[Image:Birthyear.JPG]]

 '''Q:'''  continuing from the previous question in Birth-Baptism records, Most lines have borth and baptism dates labelled but some lines have only one date that is not labelled (as in the following) [[Image:Birthbaptismonedate.JPG]]

Some people are keying those single dates as Birth and some are keying as Baptism. I claim it's impossible to tell for sure which it is and I'm keying and reviewing to Other. Does that opinion seem correct?

 '''Q:''' I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850. For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739. Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city? Or how should they be keyed?

'''A:''' We only key what is provided. If no city is named we leave the field blank. And "city" means city; not a country, state or "at sea". There is some chance that Governor's Wharf is/was a town but I doubt it, from the wording.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

I thought that was likely but this is where I get impatient with WAP sometimes. If Cornelius was one of my ancestors I would really like to find this information in a search. Without keying that extra record finding this would be very unlikely. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank? '''A:''' Without seeing the exact text I would urge caution. Most of those I have seen seem to list the towns the parents live in but do not explicitly list the marriage town. "preceeding the date" may be the same as "after a set of parents". --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Note:''' Discussion about the following image removed because the answer was simple. The image was left as an example illustrating the next question. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

'''Q:'''Oh help! I have just come across one of these strange double-year dates - Feb 28 1693-4 for the marriage of Joseph Chase to Sarah Shearman - but I do not fully understand your discussion above. What date should I actually key? February 1694? Confused!

'''A: '''I have removed that previous discussion just above because it was just my confusion. I now think it's clear that we key the earlier year when two years are given. So Feb 28 1693 in this example. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 1719  and Apr 12 1718 since two of them are in the Quaker date formating?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

 

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q: ''' On a page opposite what says "birth and death" there is an entry that states "GREENE William, son of Samual and Mehitable, both dec. of Johnston 3,6m, 1787". DOes this mean that William Green died on 3, 6m, 1787 and that Samuel and Mehitable are both deceased?

'''     A:''' Exactly, the parents predeceased William. Nothing extra to key. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q:  On page 234 of the church records there are several entries that don't have a given name but state son or daughter.  Do we leave the given name blank or do we enter "son" or "daughter"?

A: the keying instructions state to put things like "son" or "daughter of" in the prefix. Given Name would be left blank if no given name is provided. See it [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Prefix here]. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:53, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

 Q. How should the following be keyed, similar to the above question?   I am seeing these in Dr. Ezra Style's Record on page 431 BISSELL  Job, son (daughter, child) of - This seems to be a child of Job Bissell, so the given should be Blank and enter Job as the father?

A: Here is the image clip you speak of

[[Image:Bissell.JPG]]

As you suggest, this is a death at 6/12 years, prefix "son of", given name Blank, surname Bissell, father's name Job Bissell. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:53, 3 February 2013 (UTC) 

Q: Another example has 'BULIOD, Lewis, son of' with 2 more records saying 'BULIOD, Lewis, daughter of'.  Because of the 'Daughter of' records, it would seem that these type of records should be entered as Blank for Given and 'Lewis' as the Father's Given.

BENTLEY William, wife (or widow) of - This seems to be a Wife of William Bentley, so given is blank, with Mrs as the Prefix, and William as the spouse?

A: For your Buliod example I think you see the standards now. For the Bentley example, we are told to always key what we are given when possible. The words "wife of" are given so that would go in prefix  with a blank given name and William Bentley would be the spouse. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:53, 3 February 2013 (UTC) 

Q:  The parents are listed as John and Mary Doe. Do we key as John Doe and Mary Doe or John Doe and Mary (surname left blank)?

     A. Earlier posts have said to use the child's name as the wife's surname, unless something else is listed, so it should be entered as Doe. 

 

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)) 

 

 

(A question here moved to the Q&A section.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:26, 29 December 2012 (UTC) )

== Surname vs surmised Maiden name ==

How would the following death record be indexed: Greene, Mary, widow, daughter of Harvey and Lydia Brown... If the maiden name is supposed to be used instead of the married name, would I change her surname to Brown, and then put the spouse's surname as Greene? I have encountered many of these and just need to be clear. Sometimes there is a deceased spouse listed earlier, but without a clear statement that they were married. If it states: Greene, Mary, widow of Benjamin, daughter of Harvey and Lydia Brown,there is no question about proper indexing, it is just when there isn't all the information in the entry.

File:Bissell.JPG

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 13:46:38 GMT

Suzanneferrio: Bissell son death

Bissell son death

Talk:World Archives Project: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, The Ottawa Journal, 1885-1980

Suzanneferrio — Fri, 01 Feb 2013 19:58:43 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Extra Keying Helps */

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:11:59 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Questions and Answers */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate. According to the new instructions the c date is keyed as a Marriage Certificate record.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==
'''Q: '''Barrington Congregational Church reverses maiden and married names? I have a couple sets of the membership list from that church and found this on the first page (set 2741826_46): [[Image:Barrington.jpg]]

I interpret the second sentence to say that the members are listed by the surname used when they joined the church. If a woman married later that name is included in parentheses. Here is an example: [[Image:Sarah_Arnold_Beane.jpg]]

That would be the reverse of how we usually see, and key, them.

Do we just follow our usual keying guideline and hope those people will be found in a search? 

'''Q:''' I have seen many instances of the following, where no year is given for the birth. In every case the month/day is prior to the month/day of baptism. It seems obvious to me that the birth was in the same year as the baptism and it was just omitted to save typing. I have been keying and reviewing that way (e.g. 1888 for the birth year in this example) but I see most other people are keying the birth year [blank]. Is my assumption ok? [[Image:Birthyear.JPG]]

 '''Q:'''  continuing from the previous question in Birth-Baptism records, Most lines have borth and baptism dates labelled but some lines have only one date that is not labelled (as in the following) [[Image:Birthbaptismonedate.JPG]]

Some people are keying those single dates as Birth and some are keying as Baptism. I claim it's impossible to tell for sure which it is and I'm keying and reviewing to Other. Does that opinion seem correct?

 '''Q:''' I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850. For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739. Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city? Or how should they be keyed?

'''A:''' We only key what is provided. If no city is named we leave the field blank. And "city" means city; not a country, state or "at sea". There is some chance that Governor's Wharf is/was a town but I doubt it, from the wording.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

I thought that was likely but this is where I get impatient with WAP sometimes. If Cornelius was one of my ancestors I would really like to find this information in a search. Without keying that extra record finding this would be very unlikely. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank? '''A:''' Without seeing the exact text I would urge caution. Most of those I have seen seem to list the towns the parents live in but do not explicitly list the marriage town. "preceeding the date" may be the same as "after a set of parents". --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Note:''' Discussion about the following image removed because the answer was simple. The image was left as an example illustrating the next question. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

'''Q:'''Oh help! I have just come across one of these strange double-year dates - Feb 28 1693-4 for the marriage of Joseph Chase to Sarah Shearman - but I do not fully understand your discussion above. What date should I actually key? February 1694? Confused!

'''A: '''I have removed that previous discussion just above because it was just my confusion. I now think it's clear that we key the earlier year when two years are given. So Feb 28 1693 in this example. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 1719  and Apr 12 1718 since two of them are in the Quaker date formating?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

 

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

 

 Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q: ''' On a page opposite what says "birth and death" there is an entry that states "GREENE William, son of Samual and Mehitable, both dec. of Johnston 3,6m, 1787". DOes this mean that William Green died on 3, 6m, 1787 and that Samuel and Mehitable are both deceased?

'''A:''' Exactly, the parents predeceased William. Nothing extra to key. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q:  On page 234 of the church records there are several entries that don't have a given name but state son or daughter.  Do we leave the given name blank or do we enter "son" or "daughter"?

 

Q:  The parents are listed as John and Mary Doe. Do we key as John Doe and Mary Doe or John Doe and Mary (surname left blank)?

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)) 

 

 

(A question here moved to the Q&A section.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:26, 29 December 2012 (UTC) )

== Surname vs surmised Maiden name ==

How would the following death record be indexed: Greene, Mary, widow, daughter of Harvey and Lydia Brown... If the maiden name is supposed to be used instead of the married name, would I change her surname to Brown, and then put the spouse's surname as Greene? I have encountered many of these and just need to be clear. Sometimes there is a deceased spouse listed earlier, but without a clear statement that they were married. If it states: Greene, Mary, widow of Benjamin, daughter of Harvey and Lydia Brown,there is no question about proper indexing, it is just when there isn't all the information in the entry.

File:Sarah Arnold Beane.jpg

Suzanneferrio — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:10:23 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

File:Barrington.jpg

Suzanneferrio — Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:06:11 GMT

Suzanneferrio: Barrington Congregational Church statement about married names

Barrington Congregational Church statement about married names

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 18:04:31 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Questions and Answers */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate. According to the new instructions the c date is keyed as a Marriage Certificate record.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q:''' I have seen many instances of the following, where no year is given for the birth. In every case the month/day is prior to the month/day of baptism. It seems obvious to me that the birth was in the same year as the baptism and it was just omitted to save typing. I have been keying and reviewing that way (e.g. 1888 for the birth year in this example) but I see most other people are keying the birth year [blank]. Is my assumption ok? [[Image:Birthyear.JPG]]

'''Q:'''  continuing from the previous question in Birth-Baptism records, Most lines have borth and baptism dates labelled but some lines have only one date that is not labelled (as in the following) [[Image:Birthbaptismonedate.JPG]]

Some people are keying those single dates as Birth and some are keying as Baptism. I claim it's impossible to tell for sure which it is and I'm keying and reviewing to Other. Does that opinion seem correct?

 '''Q:''' I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850. For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739. Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city? Or how should they be keyed?

'''A:''' We only key what is provided. If no city is named we leave the field blank. And "city" means city; not a country, state or "at sea". There is some chance that Governor's Wharf is/was a town but I doubt it, from the wording.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

:'''A:''' I just posted a reply on the message board where I entered a record for the Marriage to the widow whose name was mentioned. I know we have discussed this in the past and I believe we have sometimes said not to key the record as it may not have occurred in the same place, etc but to preserve this event we can key an additional record. There are no dates for the marriage as none are given. [http://boards.ancestry.com/wap.newprojectqa/410.13.3.1/mb.ashx MB post] If you have questions about this please reply on the same thread or send me an email. [[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 17:29, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I thought that was likely but this is where I get impatient with WAP sometimes. If Cornelius was one of my ancestors I would really like to find this information in a search. Without keying that extra record finding this would be very unlikely. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank? '''A:''' Without seeing the exact text I would urge caution. Most of those I have seen seem to list the towns the parents live in but do not explicitly list the marriage town. "preceeding the date" may be the same as "after a set of parents". --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Note:''' Discussion about the following image removed because the answer was simple. The image was left as an example illustrating the next question. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

'''Q:'''Oh help! I have just come across one of these strange double-year dates - Feb 28 1693-4 for the marriage of Joseph Chase to Sarah Shearman - but I do not fully understand your discussion above. What date should I actually key? February 1694? Confused!

'''A: '''I have removed that previous discussion just above because it was just my confusion. I now think it's clear that we key the earlier year when two years are given. So Feb 28 1693 in this example. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 1719  and Apr 12 1718 since two of them are in the Quaker date formating?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

 

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

 

 Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q: ''' On a page opposite what says "birth and death" there is an entry that states "GREENE William, son of Samual and Mehitable, both dec. of Johnston 3,6m, 1787". DOes this mean that William Green died on 3, 6m, 1787 and that Samuel and Mehitable are both deceased?

'''A:''' Exactly, the parents predeceased William. Nothing extra to key. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)) 

 

(A question here moved to the Q&A section. 
--[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:26, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
)

File:Birthbaptismonedate.JPG

Suzanneferrio — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 18:01:59 GMT

Suzanneferrio: One date in Birth-Baptism records in Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

One date in Birth-Baptism records in Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:28:21 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate. According to the new instructions the c date is keyed as a Marriage Certificate record.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==
'''Q:''' I have seen many instances of the following, where no year is given for the birth. In every case the month/day is prior to the month/day of baptism. It seems obvious to me that the birth was in the same year as the baptism and it was just omitted to save typing. I have been keying and reviewing that way (e.g. 1888 for the birth year in this example) but I see most other people are keying the birth year [blank]. Is my assumption ok?
[[Image:Birthyear.JPG]]

'''Q:''' I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850. For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739. Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city? Or how should they be keyed?

'''A:''' We only key what is provided. If no city is named we leave the field blank. And "city" means city; not a country, state or "at sea". There is some chance that Governor's Wharf is/was a town but I doubt it, from the wording.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

:'''A:''' I just posted a reply on the message board where I entered a record for the Marriage to the widow whose name was mentioned. I know we have discussed this in the past and I believe we have sometimes said not to key the record as it may not have occurred in the same place, etc but to preserve this event we can key an additional record. There are no dates for the marriage as none are given. [http://boards.ancestry.com/wap.newprojectqa/410.13.3.1/mb.ashx MB post] If you have questions about this please reply on the same thread or send me an email. [[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 17:29, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I thought that was likely but this is where I get impatient with WAP sometimes. If Cornelius was one of my ancestors I would really like to find this information in a search. Without keying that extra record finding this would be very unlikely. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank? '''A:''' Without seeing the exact text I would urge caution. Most of those I have seen seem to list the towns the parents live in but do not explicitly list the marriage town. "preceeding the date" may be the same as "after a set of parents". --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Note:''' Discussion about the following image removed because the answer was simple. The image was left as an example illustrating the next question. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

'''Q:'''Oh help! I have just come across one of these strange double-year dates - Feb 28 1693-4 for the marriage of Joseph Chase to Sarah Shearman - but I do not fully understand your discussion above. What date should I actually key? February 1694? Confused!

'''A: '''I have removed that previous discussion just above because it was just my confusion. I now think it's clear that we key the earlier year when two years are given. So Feb 28 1693 in this example. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 1719  and Apr 12 1718 since two of them are in the Quaker date formating?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

 

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

 

 Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q: ''' On a page opposite what says "birth and death" there is an entry that states "GREENE William, son of Samual and Mehitable, both dec. of Johnston 3,6m, 1787". DOes this mean that William Green died on 3, 6m, 1787 and that Samuel and Mehitable are both deceased?

'''A:''' Exactly, the parents predeceased William. Nothing extra to key. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)) 

 

(A question here moved to the Q&A section. 
--[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:26, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
)

File:Birthyear.JPG

Suzanneferrio — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:24:47 GMT

Suzanneferrio: Omitted birth year in Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Omitted birth year in Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 13:04:25 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Event Type */

<table cellspacing="0" border="0" style="float: right; verticalAlign: top; margin-left: 5px">
<tr><td>
{{#widget:Iframe|url=http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/extensions/awapwidgets/widget_side.php?projectID=41782|width=330|height=1200|border=0}}
</td></tr>
</table>

'''About this project'''
This collection contains the church records from the Rhode Island vital extracts collection from 1636-1850. 
 
'''Updated Instructions''': We have added a new event type - Marriage Certificate. This is to accomodate the records with the publication dates (noted by a p) followed by the certificate date (noted by a c). Only the certificate date needs to be keyed.
 
==Need help keying this project?==
'''Project Instructions'''
This collection contains the church records from the Rhode Island vital extracts collection from 1636-1850.

For these records you will be keying any names that appear in association with the record, the date and city of the event. The event type will need to be determined using the dictionary provided. If an event type is unclear it should be keyed as "Other." The Military event type is not expected in this project. The complete options are:

*Birth
*Baptism
*Marriage
*Marriage Certificates
*Death
*Military
*Other

The military event type is for military service and pension records. The other event type is for church records that don't fall within the other defined categories, such as receival, letters, dismissal, and excommunication, as well as records where the event type cannot be determined. Marriage Certificate is for intentions of marriage. If more than one date appears on the marriage intention, only key the second date after the abbreciation c.

Sometimes an individual will have more than one date recorded on an image. If more than one date is associated with an individual and they are both vital dates (birth, baptism, marriage, or death), key each date as a separate record. '''If more than one date is associated with an individual that is an "Other" event, only key the first date'''.

Many pages will not explicitly state what the event type is, but can be determined from the record itself.

For images that do not contain any names but do include a page number, they should be marked as the "Page Number" form type. The page number will be in either Roman or Arabic numerals, and should be keyed as seen. Only mark an image as "Cover page, Section header, etc." if there is no page number.
 
'''Project-specific sample images and form field help:'''
 Choose a sample image from below to see the corresponding form field examples. 
[[#Page Number|Page Number]]
 
[[#Vital Records|Vital Records]]
 
[[#Cover page, Section header, etc.|Cover page, Section header, etc,]]
 
[[#Image with no data|Image with no data]]

=Page Number=
http://c.mfcreative.com/i/akt/projecthelp/41782/41384_2421406273_0004-00018.jpg
 
'''Choose the "Page Number" form type when the image does not have names that need to be keyed, but does contain a page number. This will include indexes and any introduction material.''' If an image contains content (such as an index or introduction page) that is not being keyed and does not have a page number, this image should be marked as "Cover page, Section header, etc.). 
====Page Number====
Key the page number as seen. Page numbers will be in either Arabic or Roman numerals.
 

====Keying Image Samples====
<gallery>
File:RI Vitals Page Number Key Sample 1.JPG
File:RI Vitals Page Number Key Sample 2.JPG
</gallery>

=Vital Records=
http://c.mfcreative.com/i/akt/projecthelp/41782/41384_2421406273_0012-00372.jpg
 
Choose the "Vital Records" form type when them image contains names that need to be keyed. This includes, but is not limited to, birth, marriage, death, baptism, membership, and pension records. 
====Additional Image Samples====
<gallery perrow=4>
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Sample_1.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Sample_2.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Sample_3.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Sample_4.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Sample_5.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Sample_6.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Sample_7.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Sample_8.JPG
</gallery>

====Page Number====
Key the page number as seen. Page numbers will be in either Arabic or Roman numerals.
 
==== Event Type ====

Key the event type of the event being recorded. If the event type cannot be determined, key it as "Other." The Military event type is not expected in this project. Complete options are: 

*Birth
*Baptism
*Marriage
*Marriage Certificate (these are identified when there are a few dates given, the first 1-2 preceded by a "p" and the last one with a "c" - the date after "c" is the certificate date.)

:Note: The Marriage Certificate event has not yet been added to the drop down menu so you will need to validate it by clicking on F7. Example of image for Marriage Certificate:

[[Image:Certificate.JPG]]

*Death
*Military
*Other

 

====Suffix====
Key all titles, such as "Jr" or "III," following the surname as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you.
 
==== Surname ====

Key the surname as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you. The surname will usually only appear once on a page for everyone the surnames applies to. Key the surname to all these records. 

====Given====
Key the first name or initial and any middle names as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you.
 
====Prefix====
Key any titles before the given name, such as "Dr," "Rev," "Mr" or "Mrs," as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you.On birth and death records "stillborn", "child", "unknown", or "not stated" may appear. Key these as prefixes. If a dash appears, mark the field as blank. If "child of Robert Palmer" appears, key "child of" as a prefix then key the father name as Robert Palmer. '''Do not key any ranks that may appear'''.
 

====Age at Event====
Key the age at event.Valid ages include numeric digits between "0" and "120" and fractions between "1/12" and "11/12". If an age includes years, months, and/or days key only the years. For example, if an age appears as 10 years, 7 months, key age as "10" If an age appears in months, such as 10 months, key age as a fraction: "10/12" If an Age includes years plus a fraction, such as 3 3/12, key only the year: "3." If the age is less than one month, key "0."
 
====Event Day====
Key the day of the event date as seen.
 
====Event Month====
Key the month in its three letter abbreviation from the event date using the dictionary provided to assist you. 
If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. 
<gallery>
File:Quakermonths.jpg
</gallery>
 

====Event Year====
Key the year from the event date. If the event date is a year range, key the first year from this range.
 
====Event City====
Key the event city as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you. The event city will often times be in the book title printed at the top of the page.
 
====Father Given====
Key the first name or initial with any middle names or initials of the father as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you. Often the parents' names will appear after the word "of." For example, "Betram, Thomas of Thomas and Maria Ward." Do not key any names of step-parents in this field.
 
====Father Surname====
Key the surname of the father as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you. The father's surname will not be stated and should be keyed from the child's surname. Often the parents' names will appear after the word "of." For example, "Betram, Thomas of Thomas and Maria Ward." Do not key any names of step-parents in this field.
 
====Mother Given====
Key the first name or initial with any middle names or initials of the mother as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you.Often the parents' names will appear after the word "of." For example, "Betram, Thomas of Thomas and Maria Ward." Do not key any names of step-parents in this field.
 
====Mother Surname====
Key the surname of the mother as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you. If a surname appears in parentheses after the mother's given name, key this surname. If no surname is stated, the mother's surname should be keyed from the child's surname. Often the parents' names will appear after the word "of". For example, "Betram, Thomas of Thomas and Maria Ward." Do not key any names of step-parents in this field.
 

====Spouse Given====
Key the first name and any middle names or initials of the spouse as seen on the image using the dictionary provided to assist you.
 
====Spouse Surname====
Key the surname of the spouse as seen on the image using the dictionary provided to assist you.
 
====Spouse Age at Event====
Key the spouse's age at event.Valid ages include numeric digits between "0" and "120" and fractions between "1/12" and "11/12". If an age includes years, months, and/or days key only the years. For example, if an age appears as 10 years, 7 months, key age as "10" If an age appears in months, such as 10 months, key age as a fraction: "10/12" If an Age includes years plus a fraction, such as 3 3/12, key only the year: "3." If the age is less than one month, key "0."
 
====Spouse Father Given====
Key the first name or initial with any middle names or initials of the spouse father as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you. Often the parents' names will appear after the word "of." For example, "Betram, Thomas of Thomas and Maria Ward." Do not key any names of step-parents in this field.
 
====Spouse Father Surname====
Key the surname of the spouse father as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you. Often the parents' names will appear after the word "of." For example, "Betram, Thomas of Thomas and Maria Ward." Do not key any names of step-parents in this field.
 
====Spouse Mother Given====
Key the first name or initial with any middle names or initials of the spouse mother as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you.Often the parents' names will appear after the word "of." For example, "Betram, Thomas of Thomas and Maria Ward." Do not key any names of step-parents in this field.
 
====Spouse Mother Surname====
Key the surname of the spouse mother as seen on the record using the dictionary provided to assist you. If a surname appears in parentheses after the spouse mother's given name, key this surname. If no surname is stated, the spouse mother's surname should be keyed from the child's surname. Often the parents' names will appear after the word "of". For example, "Betram, Thomas of Thomas and Maria Ward." Do not key any names of step-parents in this field.
 

====Keying Image Samples====
<gallery perrow=3>
File:RI Vitals Page Number Key Sample 1.JPG
File:RI Vitals Page Number Key Sample 2.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Key_Sample_3.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Key_Sample_4.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Key_Sample_5.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Key_Sample_6.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Key_Sample_7.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Key_Sample_8.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_Vital_Records_Key_Sample_9.JPG
</gallery>

=Cover page, Section header, etc.=
[[File:RI Vitals Cover Page Sample 1.JPG]]
 
Use the “Cover page, Section header, etc” type for images that don’t contain any data, but might be interesting to look at because they provide some type of context for the image set. For instance, historical notes, affidavits, and so forth. '''Only use this form type if there is no page number on the image.'''
=Image with no data=
[[File:RI Vitals No Data Sample 1.JPG]] 
Image with no data” type for images that don’t contain any data or any useful context that might be interesting for someone to look at. For instance, an image containing only the blank background or an image with a microfilm target on it.
====Additional Image Samples====
<gallery>
File:RI Vitals No Data Sample 1.JPG
File:RI_Vitals_No_Data_Sample_2.JPG
</gallery>
 
[[Category:World Archives Project]]

File:Certificate.JPG

Suzanneferrio — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 13:03:02 GMT

Suzanneferrio: Marriage Certificate type for Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Marriage Certificate type for Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 22:05:43 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Questions and Answers */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate. According to the new instructions the c date is keyed as a Marriage Certificate record.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q:''' I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850. For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739. Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city? Or how should they be keyed?

'''A:''' We only key what is provided. If no city is named we leave the field blank. And "city" means city; not a country, state or "at sea". There is some chance that Governor's Wharf is/was a town but I doubt it, from the wording.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

:'''A:''' I just posted a reply on the message board where I entered a record for the Marriage to the widow whose name was mentioned. I know we have discussed this in the past and I believe we have sometimes said not to key the record as it may not have occurred in the same place, etc but to preserve this event we can key an additional record. There are no dates for the marriage as none are given. [http://boards.ancestry.com/wap.newprojectqa/410.13.3.1/mb.ashx MB post] If you have questions about this please reply on the same thread or send me an email. [[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 17:29, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I thought that was likely but this is where I get impatient with WAP sometimes. If Cornelius was one of my ancestors I would really like to find this information in a search. Without keying that extra record finding this would be very unlikely. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank? '''A:''' Without seeing the exact text I would urge caution. Most of those I have seen seem to list the towns the parents live in but do not explicitly list the marriage town. "preceeding the date" may be the same as "after a set of parents". --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Note:''' Discussion about the following image removed because the answer was simple. The image was left as an example illustrating the next question. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

'''Q:'''Oh help! I have just come across one of these strange double-year dates - Feb 28 1693-4 for the marriage of Joseph Chase to Sarah Shearman - but I do not fully understand your discussion above. What date should I actually key? February 1694? Confused!

'''A: '''I have removed that previous discussion just above because it was just my confusion. I now think it's clear that we key the earlier year when two years are given. So Feb 28 1693 in this example. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 22:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 1719  and Apr 12 1718 since two of them are in the Quaker date formating?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

 

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

 

 Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q: ''' On a page opposite what says "birth and death" there is an entry that states "GREENE William, son of Samual and Mehitable, both dec. of Johnston 3,6m, 1787". DOes this mean that William Green died on 3, 6m, 1787 and that Samuel and Mehitable are both deceased?

'''A:''' Exactly, the parents predeceased William. Nothing extra to key. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)) 

 

(A question here moved to the Q&A section. 
--[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:26, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
)

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:36:19 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Questions and Answers */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate. According to the new instructions the c date is keyed as a Marriage Certificate record.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q:''' I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850. For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739. Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city? Or how should they be keyed?

'''A:''' We only key what is provided. If no city is named we leave the field blank. And "city" means city; not a country, state or "at sea". There is some chance that Governor's Wharf is/was a town but I doubt it, from the wording.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

I thought that was likely but this is where I get impatient with WAP sometimes. If Cornelius was one of my ancestors I would really like to find this information in a search. Without keying that extra record finding this would be very unlikely. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank? '''A:''' Without seeing the exact text I would urge caution. Most of those I have seen seem to list the towns the parents live in but do not explicitly list the marriage town. "preceeding the date" may be the same as "after a set of parents". --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

 

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

 

 Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q: ''' On a page opposite what says "birth and death" there is an entry that states "GREENE William, son of Samual and Mehitable, both dec. of Johnston 3,6m, 1787". DOes this mean that William Green died on 3, 6m, 1787 and that Samuel and Mehitable are both deceased?

'''A:''' Exactly, the parents predeceased William. Nothing extra to key. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)) 

 

(A question here moved to the Q&A section. 
--[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:26, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
)

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 15:17:08 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Extra Keying Helps */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate. According to the new instructions the c date is keyed as a Marriage Certificate record.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q:''' I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850. For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739. Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city? Or how should they be keyed?

'''A:''' We only key what is provided. If no city is named we leave the field blank. And "city" means city; not a country, state or "at sea". There is some chance that Governor's Wharf is/was a town but I doubt it, from the wording.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

I thought that was likely but this is where I get impatient with WAP sometimes. If Cornelius was one of my ancestors I would really like to find this information in a search. Without keying that extra record finding this would be very unlikely. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank? '''A:''' Without seeing the exact text I would urge caution. Most of those I have seen seem to list the towns the parents live in but do not explicitly list the marriage town. "preceeding the date" may be the same as "after a set of parents". --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

 

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

 

 Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)) 

 

(A question here moved to the Q&A section. 
--[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:26, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
)

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:26:46 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q:''' I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850. For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739. Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city? Or how should they be keyed?

'''A:''' We only key what is provided. If no city is named we leave the field blank. And "city" means city; not a country, state or "at sea". There is some chance that Governor's Wharf is/was a town but I doubt it, from the wording.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

I thought that was likely but this is where I get impatient with WAP sometimes. If Cornelius was one of my ancestors I would really like to find this information in a search. Without keying that extra record finding this would be very unlikely. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank? '''A:''' Without seeing the exact text I would urge caution. Most of those I have seen seem to list the towns the parents live in but do not explicitly list the marriage town. "preceeding the date" may be the same as "after a set of parents". --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

 

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

 

 Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)) 

 

(A question here moved to the Q&A section. 
--[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:26, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
)

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:25:56 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q:''' I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850. For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739. Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city? Or how should they be keyed?

'''A:''' We only key what is provided. If no city is named we leave the field blank. And "city" means city; not a country, state or "at sea". There is some chance that Governor's Wharf is/was a town but I doubt it, from the wording.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

I thought that was likely but this is where I get impatient with WAP sometimes. If Cornelius was one of my ancestors I would really like to find this information in a search. Without keying that extra record finding this would be very unlikely. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank? '''A:''' Without seeing the exact text I would urge caution. Most of those I have seen seem to list the towns the parents live in but do not explicitly list the marriage town. "preceeding the date" may be the same as "after a set of parents". --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

 

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

 

 Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)) 

I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850.  For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739.

Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city?  Or how should they be keyed?

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:18:10 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Questions and Answers */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

I thought that was likely but this is where I get impatient with WAP sometimes. If Cornelius was one of my ancestors I would really like to find this information in a search. Without keying that extra record finding this would be very unlikely. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank?
'''A:''' Without seeing the exact text I would urge caution. Most of those I have seen seem to list the towns the parents live in but do not explicitly list the marriage town. "preceeding the date" may be the same as "after a set of parents". --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:18, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

 

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

 

 Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)) 

I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850.  For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739.

Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city?  Or how should they be keyed?

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:06:58 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Questions and Answers */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

 

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==

Q: Regarding keying "Event Location": I've reviewed the instructions again, and want to confirm that for pages without a place-name-page header, the only event locations to be entered are those that include "AT (town)." The towns inserted after the names of brides or grooms (without at) are not to be keyed as the event location, right?

A: Yes, that's right, because the towns shown after the name of the bride or groom are their places of residence and not necessarily where the wedding took place. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
I would also say that for "birth and baptism records", the baptism happened at the church at the top of the page but that is not necessarily where the birth happened and we should not assume that it happened at the same town as the baptism. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 12:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date received into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

A: I don't think WAP intend us to key extra records like that, sorry, just one for the marriage that the entry is actually about. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC) 

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank?

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

Q:  If a marriage is first listed under the wife's name and then directly below the marriage is listed again for the husband am I correct in that it is only keyed in once?

A: No, you should key it twice. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

==  Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)) 

I am keying deaths from the Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850.  For location, I have a several records that don't list a city (page 118).

Peleg, of Clarke and Ann,drowned from Governor's Wharf, probably, 1739.

Thomas, lost on passage from Honduras, Nov.16, 1766, aged 42 years, 8 months, 16 days.

Would the "Event City" section be left blank on both of these records because they don't list a city?  Or how should they be keyed?

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 20:27:06 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==

Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Deacon (abbr. Dea) and Elder are church titles, keyed as prefixes, not part of the given names.

== Questions and Answers ==

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date recieved into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

 

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank?

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 20:25:11 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Questions and Answers */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

Q: I'm keying records from "Christ Church Westerly - Communicants." When I have an entry that lists both the date recieved into the church AND removed from the church, do I key it as two separate entries, one for received and one for removed? Or just the one entry for received? For example: "BOSE Frances Burling, received May 1845 rem -- 1855" I'm inclined to key this as two separate entries for Frances Vose. Would that be the correct action?

A: I believe we just key one, the earlier one, as an "Other" date to capture the person and when the person was living. If there is a vital ("non-Other") date don't bother keying an Other date at all.  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 20:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

 

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank?

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:46:02 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Questions and Answers */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

Q: documenting previous marriage: the snip below is about the marriage of a widow. It would seem logical, and valuable to document the previous marriage with a keyed record, added below as an "Other" since there is no date. What do you think? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Tom Ferrio]] 13:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

[[Image:Widow.JPG]]

Q: Under a section called "Rhode Island Friends Records--Marriages," some entries have one town name preceding the date. But then there are entries with different town names following each of the bridal couple names. I've keyed the town name with precedes the date. Is this correct? Or, where there are two different towns listed, should the event location be blank?

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

Surely the Marriage Certificate event type only applies when it is shown as c for certificate - if it is just a Marriage Intention I don't think it would be keyed as a Marriage Certificate. --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 23:42, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

File:Widow.JPG

Suzanneferrio — Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:44:09 GMT

Suzanneferrio: documenting previous marriage, from Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

documenting previous marriage, from Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 20:30:31 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 20:29:49 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

A: There is nothing to say these are the same person so my assumption would be that there are two William Blisses. That would not be a surprise as the same given names often flow through families. I have been treating Elder is a prefix and I have been keying it as such although it is not in the dictionary so it should never be entered as part of the given name. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 20:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 20:25:56 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

Q: Under the Bliss family name, I have two different Elizabeths with entries--a baptism and an other. One father is Capt William Bliss and the other is Elder William Bliss. Given the keying instructions of not including Capt or Elder in the father's name, should I treat this as a single entry of the baptism? Or should I make Elder William the father's name?

 '''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A: I don't understand why you say the Quaker month / year instructions indicate we should be adjusting the year for January and February? If I saw a date such as Feb 1 1732-3 I would normally assume that the year was 1732 in the old calendar (i.e. it was the February which came after December 1732 and January 1732), but that they had put 1732-3 to avoid confusion as many people aren't aware of the old calendar. If the Quaker date was given as 1d 12m 1732 we would key it as 1 Feb 1732, we wouldn't adjust the year. Or am I missing something? --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 19:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah, now I see I was over-thinking it. Somehow I was reading the Quaker month instructions to say to put January and February in our current year numbering. On re-reading I see it doesn't say that. My error. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 20:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed 

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 17<strike>20</strike>19 (modified after previous question answered)  and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 18:50:58 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). After looking at numerous examples it seems that most or all dates are of church/society membership, even when "d" is listed.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed (assuming a favorable answer to my previous question)

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 1720 and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 18:16:22 GMT

Suzanneferrio: /* Extra Keying Helps */

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==

 If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. [[Image:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

From the first page of the Westminster Congregational Church (Providence) member list: d = death, r = withdrawn or removed (left church), c = Church, s = society (evidently people could join the Church, society or both but I'm not sure). I have not seen "d" stand alone so I'm unsure whether the death date is actually given.

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed (assuming a favorable answer to my previous question)

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 1720 and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 14:58:18 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==
 
If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. 
[[File:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed (assuming a favorable answer to my previous question)

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 1720 and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 14:57:41 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==
 
If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. 
[[File:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' I am also seeing Quaker-like month numbering in records from a Sabbatarian Church (Newport), which I don't believe is Quaker, more like Seventh Day Adventists. See this clip of three dates:

[[Image:Sabbatarian_dates.JPG]]

So should these be keyed (assuming a favorable answer to my previous question)

Jun 16 1717, Feb 21 1720 and Apr 12 1718?  --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 14:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

File:Sabbatarian dates.JPG

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 14:53:55 GMT

Suzanneferrio: Sabbatarian Church Dates from Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Sabbatarian Church Dates from Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 14:19:14 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==
 
If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. 
[[File:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 14:18:35 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==
 
If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. 
[[File:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 14:18:15 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==
 
If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. 
[[File:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' '''

(Three questions here moved to the Q&A section. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 14:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC))

Talk:World Archives Project: Rhode Island, Vital Extracts, Church Records, 1636-1850

Suzanneferrio — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 14:15:31 GMT

Suzanneferrio:

'''Feel free to add to or edit information in this discussion tab as necessary. Please take time to become familiar with the [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards General Keying Standards] and be sure to read all instructions on the main project page. (Please note that in case of a discrepancy, project level instructions always trump general keying standards.)''' __TOC__

== Extra Keying Helps ==
 
If you are keying Quaker records prior to 1752 the numbering of the months does not follow our typical numbering. Please refer to the chart below. 
[[File:Quakermonths.jpg]]

*Here is a list of common abbreviations you may encounter.

[[Image:Vitalrecordabbreviations.jpg]]

 Also for Intentions and Publishments (marriages) p = publishment and c= certificate, hence the c date is the date of the actual marriage.

From United Congregational Church, Little Compton, book: a = admission, b = baptism, ab = admission and baptism (on same date)

In baptism records an "a" before a date means the person was baptized as an adult.

 

*We will sometimes see an Event City outside Rhode Island. In those cases only key the city, not state and/or country. Cities outside Rhode Island will not be in the dictionary so F7 will be needed.

[[Image:NJ Marriage.JPG]] In this example "Plainfield" will be keyed.

 

*The Event City can often be found in the page header, like Westerly in this example:

[[Image:Grace Church.JPG]]

Usually, only every other page will have this header. For the other pages, that don't list the City in the header, we should not assume the Event City is the same. Then we can only get the Event City from each item and we may often need to leave the Event City blank.

Many items on the pages will list one or more cities which are not the Event City. Those cities whould not be used, even if there is no identified location for the event.

[[Image:Example Marriage Record.JPG]]

This is a marriage record and the birth and residence locations are not to be keyed.

== Common Keying Errors Found by Reviewers ==
Do not key Jr in given or surname fields. Per keying guidelines: In cases where the name is listed as Rev. John Smith, or John Smith, Jr, and there is not a prefix or suffix field the name should be entered with John in the Given Name field and Smith in the Surname field, without either prefix or suffix. [http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.] -- [[User:Wiedwoman|Wiedwoman]] 21:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Do not key any ranks that may appear

Please check that you have keyed the Event City if it appears at the top of the page. Even though the city name may appear only once on the image, if you miss it out of every record on the page, it could have a bad effect on your accuracy stats! --[[User:Katerimmer|Katerimmer]] 12:05, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== Questions and Answers ==

'''Q1:''' I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

A1: I don't think so. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q2:''' The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

A2: When reading that instruction I wished that "ranks" would be explained more. But I assume it means military ranks so "Capt" is not keyed. "Mrs" is clearly keyed and I have been keying "Dr". The general keying standards ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_Archives_Keying_Standards#How_should_prefixes_and_suffixes_be_entered.3F link]) do not provide any guidance on what is not considered a prefix or suffix to key (hint, hint). --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

 '''Q3:''' One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833" I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct? Thanks. 

A3: Unless there is clear information, e.g. page header, that the first date is a birth date then we can only assume that it is an "Other" date. (On some pages I have seen it has been the baptism date or the date the person joined the church. The latter in membership listings.) Because there is a Death date for this person, the Other date would not be keyed. --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] 14:15, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q: '''The new Quaker month numbering information ([http://www.ancestry.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:World_Archives_Project:_Rhode_Island,_Vital_Extracts,_Church_Records,_1636-1850#Extra_Keying_Helps link]) raises another question about dates. The following example is from Quaker records:

[[Image:Friends Date.JPG]]

Normally we would assue this is recording some uncertainty about the year and our rule is to pick the earliest year (1732 in this example). But this seems to be clearly recording that the year was 1732 in the old calendar and 1733 in the new calendar. The new Quaker month/year instructions seem to indicate that we should be adjusting the year for January and February so wouldn't that mean we should use 1733 in this example? --[[User:Suzanneferrio|Suzanneferrio]] (Tom) 14:24, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

 

'''Q:''' In regards to death records: Is the date the date of birth or the date of the 'event' which would be the day they died? I've seen other records where it could be either one. For example: BRYER Mary, wife of Joseph, daughter of Daniel and Wait Gould, Newport, '''Jan 9 1690''', aged 37 years. 

:'''A:''' If the records are labeled as Death records, and since the age is given I would say that yes, it is a death date. When both dates are present typically they will noted with a b and d to identify the dates. 

 

'''Q:''' I have a birth records entry which reads GOULD THOMAS, OF THOMAS AND SARAH, MIDDLETOWN, JULY 11, 1728.  The next line reads JOHN, OCT. 29, 1736.  Am I to assume (and key) that John is also the son of Thomas & Sarah born in Middletown?  Or do I only key John's name and birthdate as seen?

:A:We have decided that the parents need to be copied down until the next record where parents are given.

Attached is an image that I have marked with numbers showing each new set of parents. <gallery>

File:RhodeIslandbirthrecords.jpg
</gallery>

(previous discussion here has been summarized for Keying Helps section above and removed.)

'''Q'''. I have a list of names along with dates that follow a "b." At first I thought it meant birth, but it became apparant that there were too many multiple births (quintuplets, etc.). Then I determined that it must mean baptized. There are also "a."s, which I thought meant about, but now I am finding dates that follow "ab.". What do all these mean? 

:A: I believe the a's could stand for "aged".

'''Q.''' Regarding my question on abbreviations, here is an excerpt from page 35:  Using the suggested abbreviations, I think it is highly unlikely that there was a set of Octuplets, followed by a set of sextuplets. These are prevalent on the surrounding pages.  All these children of John Wood, including John Jr., are followed by a John, (no parent(s) given.  They are all "born" on the same "aged?" day.  I suggest that the "b" refers to baptism and the last "John" is the father of the preceding individuals and is being baptized at the same time.  I also suggest that the "a" may stand for something along the lines of "admitted into the church", or maybe some other type of of religious commitment.  Ideas??

[[Image:Pg35.jpg]]

 

Not an answer ... Can you give the titles of the two pages? If this is from a Friends (Quaker) church, they did not baptize (according to my sources). No other ideas yet but still thinking. (Tom)

On the left page you have "VITAL RECORD OF RHODE ISLAND", and on the right page is "UNITED CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH-LITTLE COMPTON.".

Here is some more fuel to add to the fire:

[[Image:Pg35a.jpg]]

I get quite a few "wife of " so and so's. What is that about?  And I really don't understand the fourth entry from the bottom in the clip above.  '''This appears to be more evidence that "b." is being used for Baptized in this book. ''' Also, do we key the date as seen when it is 1748-9, etc.? 

::A: In regard to your question about entering the year range - the field help states to use the first year given. 
::And the fourth entry up is stating that Mary, (the surname would be the surname given at the beginning of this section of names) the daughter of Joseph and Mary was baptized by Mr. Campbell at Tiverton. There are two possibilities - 
::1. The first daughter named Mary passed away and they named the next daughter Mary as well.
::2. There are two sets of parents named Joseph and Mary. 

 

:A: I found the same book on ancestry.com ([http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?dbid=15395&iid=dvm_PrimSrc000266-01936-0&sid=&gskw=# link]). Here is the header on the first page of that section:

[[Image:Little Compton 1.JPG]]

'''So "a" is when admitted to the church. "ab" if if the person was baptised and admitted on the same day.'''

(Tom)

:A: Excellent!  Now if we could just get those added to the drop-down list.

:A: '''"Baptism" is in the list. I have been using "Other" for "admission", "received", "letter" etc. that I am seeing. But I am not entering multiple records for a person if they are only "Other" records (like Mary Valentine's letter date below):'''

[[Image:Mary Valentine.JPG]]

Here I entered one "Other" record for James, to capture that name, and one "Death" record for Mary. I did not bother with an "Other" record for Mary for the letter since it wouldn't help anyone for searching, once we have captured her name in another record. Is that ok?

'''Q'''. More abbreviation questions: In the following clip you will find "dr."s, "d."s, and sometimes both together.  "d." cannot indicate "died" in this case, as several entries have both "d." and "died" with two different dates. Perhaps you could find a complete listing of abbreviations particular to this book.

[[Image:Pg82.jpg]]

 (Tom) Please report the titles from the tops of the two pages; then I will see if I can find the book elsewhere online to look at the opening pages.

Without knowing more, those "d" entries look like indexes to annual books.

:A: I used your link and finally found the answer to the question above, regarding d., dr, and b. in this section.  See clip below:

[[Image:Members.jpg]]

'''Q:'''The following excerpt has a lot of information.

[[Image:Mother Surname.JPG]]

It seems perfectly clear to me that I can/should key the mother of William and David as "Mary Harris". This all seems to read like a paragraph. Or is that inferring too much? '''No, not inferring too much. :)'''

 <strike>On the other hand</strike> the following excerpt is structured the same but does not include "his wife" and "their children".

[[Image:No his wife.JPG]]

<strike>So for this one I list the mother of Sarah et al as "Phebe G Peckham". Although it's pretty obvious that she is "Phebe G Lockwood" the data does not explicitly say that. Ok?</strike>

Since first writing this question a couple days ago I have seen this structure very often, listing the parents followed by the children. So now I have started keying e.g. the mother of Sarah as "Phebe G Lockwood" rather than "Phebe G Peckham" as I believe the book intends that to be clear. Is this ok or is it inferring too much? 

:A: You're correct, Phebe G Lockwood is how the mother should be keyed.[[User:Annafechter|Annafechter]] 12:33, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

'''Q:''' In working on marriage records, I have encountered many instances where the bride's maiden name (and her parents' last name) is not given.  In that case, do we assume that the groom's last name should be used for every one in that grouping, or do we leave the surname fields blank for bride and her parents? 

:A: In this situation we would not assume their surnames. The only cases in which we would assume surnames are 
:1. When the child's name is listed in full but the parents names are not 
:2. When the parents' full names are listed but the child's surname is not 

'''Q:''' Are pages entitled Intentions (to marry, I assume) to be keyed as Marriages or Other?   Also, on adjoining pages to Intentions, where the heading does not state the type of event, but it's identical to Intentions, what should the Event type be?  

:'''A:''' According to the updated project instructions Intentions should be classified as a Marriage Certificate event type. In regard to the pages where an event type isn't noted these would also be classified as Other event type. 

 '''Q:''' When church membership lists several dates which date is used - the oldest or the newest?''' '''

:'''A:''' You would use the first date listed. 

 

'''Q:''' If a person is listed as "his wife" referring to the man listed directly above, is he keyed in as the spouse?  In the reverse is she keyed in as a spouse for him?''' '''

:'''A:''' Yes, you would enter them as each others' spouse.

== Suggestions/Additions ==

 '''If you have a suggestion or would like to make an addition to the project page, click “EDIT” and post your suggestion here. (If you click on Rich Editor you won't have to worry about formatting your entry.) Then click “WATCH” at the top right on this page and you will be notified via email when an update has been made.'''''' 

Q1: I've seen (col.) for colored on several records. Is this to be keyed?

Q2: The instructions say not to include ranks. Please confirm that Capt is not to be keyed as is Mrs or Dr?

Q3: One entry says: "Barker, Isaiah, June 10, 1820, died Aug 20, 1833"
I keyed two records, one birth and one death. Is this correct?
Thanks.

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